bkm_rx7

ok...what i wanna know is what it would take to put a 13bt from http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=7987897935 in a gsl-se that i have. the gls-se that i have is complete except for the engine...will the tranny work that is in it??? any info is much appreciated...i really wanna go turbo...and this way is dirt cheap...

Gregs

thats a non turbo engine

bkm_rx7

thats not a real auction

if you scroll down further it shows their listing of engines and the 13bt is either $1,067 for a s4 or $1,128 for a s5 engine. which begs another question...is the extra money worth it for a s5 engine? whats the advantage?

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Well, from there it looks like a S4 TII engine is $1067 for basic rebuild, $2170 with new housings. You will notice that the basic TII rebuild has no warranty. With new housings, you will get a 6 month warranty. Since you don't have a core, you will need to spend an extra $375 above these prices plus the cost of shipping. This is also just a short block. You would still need manifolds, turbos, sensor, water pump, fuel supply, etc. So, it would get expensive pretty fast.

I would just get a used engine. Either from someone on here or a jspec engine. You could then rebuild that. At least that way you would have the basic parts. There is still quite a bit involved in a TII swap and you should use a TII tranny with it.

Good luck.

Kent

bkm_rx7

heh...you might wanna read the extra tiny print my friend...you DO get a warranty with that engine. its a 6 month/6,000 mile warranty tho, instead of the 2 year/24,000 mile warranty like the rest. also, like i was sayin earlier, i have a bunch of 13b parts from that gsl-se...but what more goes into a turbo'd 13b instead of a naturally aspirated one???

and the main question im wanting answered is if the 13bt would bolt up to my -se tranny???

ALSO, will this bolt up to stock motor mounts???

Gregs

yes the 13bt will bolt to the gsl-se tranny, geoffs 13bt that you worked on had a gsl-se tranny

and you will need the gsl-se front cover and oilpan to get the fc motor to fit in the first gen chassis

bkm_rx7

sweet, thx for the info greg.

let me go ahead and lay out these questions for easier replies:

1.) can ANY of the gsl-se EFI stuff be used on this t2 engine?
2.) if not, what will it take to get EFI goin on the shortblock?
3.) what manifolds and odds and ends will be NECESSARY (not BOVs and such) for the t2 shortblock to work in my gsl-se?
4.) am i able to use a 13b header on the t2? (i dont know much about turbo exhaust setups, but i know you need a downpipe...)
5.) what kind of fuel management will be NECESSARY? can i use the stock ECU? i plan on upgrading in the future, but cant afford it right now.
6.) am i gonna need a better fuel pump and regulator for this setup?
7.) am i gonna need a different/better radiator or will the gsl-se one work?

-brenden

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

I see. I forgot there was a difference between the price we were looking at and the basic rebuild.

Here is what you can do (depending on budget/time). First, you could use this engine as NA first. This would make the install easier and cheaper for now. You could break it in and as you got more time and money, you can add the turbo stuff.

Most of the SE stuff won't do you any good. There is nothing to allow for boost and the stock AFM is fairly restrictive. Also, the SE manifold won't bolt up because this is a 4 port engine and the SE is 6 port. You would need to use the SE oil pan, pickup tube, and front cover to mount this. The SE fuel pump may be okay for now, but probably should be upgraded.

Header won't work while turbo. You need a turbo manifold and downpipe instead. If you ran it as NA for now, then the SE exhaust should work.

The SE regulator is fine, but if you use a TII intake, you will want to use the TII rails, regulator and such anyways.

The SE rad will probably fine as long as it is in good shape.

As I mentioned before, the main problem is getting all the stuff that bolts on to the engine. Maybe you can find a blown S4 TII long block for cheap that you can strip parts off.

bkm_rx7

alright...so can you break down all the parts i need for me?

this is what i got so far...ill probly do as you suggested...just use it as N/A for now...but buy the t2 engine for the high comp rotors.

upper & lower intake manifolds, fuel rails with injectors (what size?), ill use my 13b header i have lying around or just use the exhaust that is there for the -se...what else do i need??

peejay

No way possible. There is no way that you can bolt a 13B where a front-mount 13B used to go, and there haven't been 15 billion people who have done it already and written their own special write-ups about how to loosen nuts and bolts and tighten them back down again. There is also nobody out there who has mated a turbo engine to a N/A transmission after getting a N/A lightweight flywheel or just a flywheel from an N/A engine of the same year as the Turbo engine, and then watched it explode in a short period of time because N/A tranneis suck even for N/A engines.

There's also no people out there who have blown Turbo engines left right and center, sometimes as soon as they go on their first road test, and so spend all of their RX-7 time wrenching instead of driving.

- Pete (Turbos suck!)

peejay

Turbo engines have *low* compression rotors.

What will you need? Buy a junk T2 as a parts donor. It's easier that way.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

it is really a lot of parts to try to list, but I'll do my best. The TII rotor are low compression (what you want in a turbo engine). I would probably go with the S5 since the price difference is small. The S5 has higher compression rotors (almost as high as our NAs) they are also lighter. The higher compression will help if you run it as NA. The only problem is the higher compression may limit the amount of boost you can run.

Since the SE stuff won't bolt up for the most part, you should get a TII manifold.

You will need:
- upper mani
- lower mani
- throttle body
- inlet duct (black tube that comes from, air filter box)
- primary and secondary fuel rail (with regulator and pulsation dampner)
- primary and secondary injectors
- all sensors (TPS, coolant temp, TII AFM, etc.)
- 2nd gen ECU and harness
- SE oil pan and pickup tube
- SE front cover
- water pump
- alt (can use the SE one)
- CAS (Crank Angle Sensor), 2nd gen coil packs (you could probably just use a 12A or SE dizzy instead if you wanted)
- SE tranny should work
- flywheel and clutch (lightweight with counterweight) This you need to think about. The choice depends on if you use the SE tranny or the TII one.
- TII starter if using the TII tranny
- custom driveline if TII tranny used

That should about cover it for NA. For turbo you would need the turbo, manifold, exhaust piping, blowoff valve, probably intercooler, should upgrade fuel pump.

If you got a JDM engine and had them rebuild or get their short block and pickup a complete blown TII long block, then you would have most of the parts that you need. Read the chronicles of TII swap thread if you haven't already. I am sure I may have left something out.

Kent

bkm_rx7

im gonna be using the -se tranny til i go turbo, so what flywheel and clutch will i need?

NoPis10

iTrader: (29)

Here is what I have been told....

You can use an SE tranny on the TII block as long as you use all the components from the SE ( clutch,flywheel,pressure plate) BUT it won't hold together if you abuse it.
As for the motor itself, it will bolt right in as long as you change the front cover and oil pan.
As for the electrical, you can have someone wire in the TII computer into the exsisting SE harness (lots of work) in which case you will need the wire harness from the TII and SE in order to get all the extra sensors that are on the TII motor to work.
Another option is to go with a Blow Thru setup that can be purchased from Robert at Rotaryshack.com. This setup will eliminate all EFI systems and wiring and get you running with a carb.(my personal setup)
Hope this helps you somewhat. I am personally going through the same project at the moment on my SE and I decided to go with Roberts setup since it is making the conversion easier for me to complete on my own. I know there are LOTS of debate whether EFI or Carbs is better but I want to keep it simple and clean so my best choice was the blow thru setup.
L8R Joe

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

hey guys, sorry cuz im kinda gonna hijack the thread....
I am going to be on a t.v. show in sept. called War of The Wheels and my team and I need to make a slalom capable 1st gen - my first thoughts were s5 13bt along with the rest of the drivetrain. Since im a 2nd gen guy though i dont know if this CAN be done(not to mention the 4 of us only have 4 days to do it)
but this thread seemed to be close to the subject i am trying to research so i figured id ask

1-can everything - I MEAN EVERYTHING - from a running, driving parts FC be swapped, (engine, tranny, cradle, rack, front susp., driveshaft, rear diff, diff cradle and rear susp.) and

2-Has anyone on here done it before?

3-are the dimensions of the body even close enough to make it possible? ie. - will the wheels stick out 5" on the rear if I use the 2nd gen rear end/cradle

bkm_rx7

as far as the engine swap goes...read The Chronicles of a Turbo II Swap.

and for the suspension thing...it has been done before, but takes fabrication work...

BACK TO MY THREAD...*******

i still need to know FORE SURE what flywheel and components i need to use since im usin a gsl-se flywheel...im guessin a gsl-se one...is there any difference between that one and a N/A flywheel??? cuz i have an extra one of those and need to keep my spending under control.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

The problem is that the SE flywheel will not balance the TII rotating assembly. The TII flywheel would take care of the balance, but I don't think it will work with the SE tranny (bigger clutch, usually different starter, etc.), maybe it will work, though.

So you would need to get a lightweight flywheel (for NA) with the counter balance for a TII (S4 or S5 depending on which one you get). If you then got a TII tranny later, I think that you would need a TII flywheel (lightweight or stock). In the long run it would probably be cheaper to do the TII tranny now, but it would mean work work and more cost in the short term.

There are a lot of things to consider for this swap. Hope you get it all figured out. Good luck.

Kent

bkm_rx7

is a t2 flywheel gonna be different than that of an N/A 2nd gen flywheel? does the automatic differ either? or is it just the counterweights that differ and the flywheels are all the same?

steve84GS TII

Auto cars have a seperate counterweight back there that the flexplate bolts to.The flexplate is neutral and the counterwieght handles all the balancing.
5-speed cars have the rear counterweight cast into the flywheel.The flywheel itself handles all the balancing and cannot be interchanged between dissimilar engines without effecting balance.
The Turbo flywheels have a larger clutch disc too,so you cant interchange them,even if the counterweight wasnt an issue.

hornbm

again what you NEED to make this work

You need a lightweight flywheel from a GSL-SE

A rear counterweight from a TII (the weight will be s4 or s5 specific)

A clutch of your choice From a GSL-SE

Starter from the GSL-SE

It'll get you going till you can actually get a TII tranny.

You cannot use ANY stock flywheel because they have the counterweight built into it.

peejay

You can't use the -SE flywheel on a T2 engine.

At least, not if you want it to last for any length of time.

peejay

The Series 4 N/A flywheel will work with a Series 4 turbo engine: the imbalance is the same.

The Series 5 N/A flywheel will work with a Series 5, JC Cosmo, or FD engine: the imbalance is the same.

NoPis10

iTrader: (29)

Per all the info I have gathered, from Rotary mechanics local and on forums, over the last year preparring for my TII swap into my GSL-SE, in order to use the GSL-SE tranny one MUST use the flywheel, clutch and pressure plate from the SE. All flywheels,clutches and pressure plates for NA 13B motors from 84-91 are all of the same diameter(215mm). The TII flywheel and related comonents are slighly larger (225mm) than there NA counterparts. If using an Aluminium flywheel, you MUST use a counterweight from an auto TII. However, recommendations from SOME of the mechanics I have spoken with is to get the TII tranny if possible, while others say that the SE tranny will work as long as it is NOT abused. My advise to anyone going thru with the swap would be to talk to a reputable Rotary shop who has performed the swap for more in depth answers. One such shop is Rotaryshack.com. Robert is very helpfull and will answer ?'s with more technical knowledge than I can.
L8R Joe

1985_RX-7

I'm turboing my 12A, baught a turbo, mani, fuel pump, intercooler all for $200.00 from an FC... I still need more parts, refer to my sig. if anybody has any of the parts listed in red lemme know...

bkm_rx7

i really hope you are right and ill take your word for it. i need to know if there is a way to tell apart the s4 flywheel from the s5 flywheel...cuz i have some flywheels from 2nd gens lying around...but i dont know if they are s4 or s5 for sure...