tjgosurf

I hear this from my room mate all the time, who bitches and complains about his 2003 lancer. Hes quite upset that my little FB is quicker than his car and handles better. He blames the extra 8 inches in his cabin. I tell him hes just slow on the shifter.

faye x7

Isn't the lancer basically a neon?

tjgosurf

pretty much, unless you get the evo, that thing is really quick for a 4 banger

anthrax

There is a more interesting line in this thread...

Look at GSLs and -SEs, (I don't know how the other models are equipted) look at the options they came with 20 years ago. Here are these "old" cars that have almost all of the same options people look for when purchasing a new car. Granted they don't have keyless entry but the technology was not small enough at the time to make it feasable as a feature, but they have all the little bells and whistesl that make people want to buy a car.

Mind you they could use a cup holder...

But is also a nice excuse to tell the GF that she can't eat or drink in the FB

If you really want keyless you can do what I did and add keyless and alarm works like a top.

any way enough form me...

purple82

I can't think of any options that you could get on a GSL that weren't also available on Cadilacs in the 1960s.

97dohc

the current generations share nothing, the '06 models are planed to share the chassis

jweather73

Could it be that he's bitching and complaining all the time because it's a LANCER!?!?

tjgosurf

He does, he paid 18k for it in september of 03, and turned around and found the exact same one for 12k. HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, he owes 14k on it and no one will take over payments for him.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

yeah my 71 mercedes has all that stuff too. dual zone climate control, child saftey locks, efi 3.5 liter v8, power windows and locks etc etc

50-60's caddys have some cool options, like the self turning on headlights, power seats, you know all the stuff they advetise as new now

purple82

People's needs haven't changed much have they? But I wouldn't say the Rx-7 was ahead of it's time at all.

By the way, I don't think you're 71 Mercedes has EFI. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think they were all mechanical fuel injection.

peejay

Being "advanced" has absolutely ****-all to do with speed.

Tell him your car has a larger engine and less weight.

Suparslinc

The Lancer Evo is the same as a Neon?

I thought it was Mitsubishi and Dodge, how can they share the same platform?

peejay

The Lancer has absolutely, positively *nothing* to do with the Neon. The Lancer Evo has a like amount of similarity, which is "zero", beyond the having four wheels and four doors and being vaguely shaped like a doorstop.

r0tary noob

um well just because 2 cars come from 2 different companies doesnt mean they dont share anything, think about the dsms MITSU-Eclipse EAGLE -Talon and PLYMOUTH- Laser or the 3si MITSU-3000GT DODGE-Shadow these companies are all a part of Daimler Chrysler, just like Mercedes and JEEP Im not saying whether or not the NEON and LANCER share platforms, I dony know about that

peejay

Bosch was selling the Rochester-invented, Bosch-developed K-Jetronic mechanical fuel injection (what with the air meter and the fuel distributor and the buzzing fuel injectors) as their "premium" fuel injection system. Hell, Porsche continued to use it well into mid 90's, not bad for something Chevy started using in '55 and later abandoned because, for the time, carbs made just as much power for less money.

EFI ("electronic" is maybe too grand a term) in the form of D-Jetronic was their "cheap" injection system, for use on budget cars like 914's and VW Beetles and cheap Volvos and the like.

I too would imagine that any Murt-seddis Bents would have K-Jet... but then again that's from a modern perspective of what should be expected of Mercedes. Likewise we wouldn't think of a mid-engined Porsche as being a "cheapo" car, either....

And I can't find my Bosch handbook to locate what models used D-Jet and what used K-Jet in that general timeframe!

I had a really neat, simple, trouble-prone idea for a mechanical EFI (electric fuel injection) system... You use a flapper type air meter, and instead of using it to send a voltage signal to an electronics module, or alter fuel pressure in some weird Teutonic fuel distributor/torture chamber, it simply tugs on a cable. The cable goes to a set of points acting off of a normal points cam in the distributor. Now check this out. The dwell angle of the points correlates to the open/closed duty cycle of those points - a dwellmeter is just a duty cycle meter, after all. A given amount of airflow demands a given injector duty cycle, no matter the RPM. So, the cable alters the dwell on the additional set of points - flapper all the way open is near max closed time (max dwell), all the way closed is near max open time (min dwell). Then you just trigger the fuel injectors off of the points, et voila!

And there are *so* many ways it can get fouled up! The cable will stretch, the points will wear out, the rubbing cam and rubber will wear, and the shape of the rubbing cam will determine the shape of the fuel curve with respect to airflow (a standard points type cam would *not* work!)...

purple82

Subaru and Saab, Mazda and Ford (on many platforms), Ford and Jaguar, GM and Saab, Lotus and Opel, Toyota and Chevrolet, it's done all the time.

Mitsubishi isn't actually part of Diamler-Chrysler. Just a partner with what sounds like a strained relationship.

peejay

However the Lancer is a Mitsu design (dates back to older Lancers) and the Neon is a Dodge design (dates back to K-cars which date back to VW's).

Just to be confusing, there was a Dodge Lancer K-car... probably why Mitsu called their Lancers different names, like the Precis and Mirage.

Dodge/Plymouth did used to sell a version of the Lancer - the Colt.

peejay

That's a whole nother ball of wax. Both are owned/controlled by General Motors.

We are Locutus of GM. Resistance is futile. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Prepare to be assimilated.

As I understand it, it was deternined that SAAB needed to bust into the lower end of the price spectrum, *and* break into the youth market, *and* they needed to move some production outside of Northern Europe, *and* they didn't have any AWD chassis. Then GM said, well hmm, how about selling some WRX's?

I mean, sheesh. Everyone knows that real SAABs either have two-stroke engines, or Ford V4 engines, or inline fours, and in the case of the inline fours, they have to be mounted backwards in the engine bay so the clutch is up against the radiator. That's just the way things are done!

I heard that some time back, SAAB even started putting the ignition lock in the dashboard instead of on the floor!

Oh well, SAAB and Subaru at least do have a lot in common: rally history, weird engines, a tendency to put the handbrake on the front brakes instead of the rear, a general nerd/weirdo clientele...

jays83gsl

Do an Ebay search for Dodge Lancer, and see that it goes back to the 1960s.
Also, FYI:
The Eagle and Jeep lines, well, now just the Jeep lines, are both branches of AMC, actually. So, you can say you have an AMC Talon or an AMC Jeep, and be technically correct. Same as calling a Nissan 280 ZX a Datsun 280 ZX. Just a different badging used to revive popularity.
MOPAR owns AMC (MOPAR being Doge, Chrysler, Mitsubishi, International, and formerly Plymouth. I know that MOPAR is NOT the correct term, I just use it to broadly describe the non European branch of the company), whereas Daimler corporation owns MOPAR, as well as other companies.
Now, back to OUR cars.
FMC (Ford Motor Company) owns a multitude of companies, including MAZDA. The other companies, off the top of my head, are Jaguar, Aston Martin, Volvo, Land Rover, Lincoln, and Mercury.
GM (General Motors) owns way too many companies.
Saab, Suburu (I think), Chevrolet, Pontiac, Cadillac, GMC (DUH), Hummer, Buick, Oldsmobile, and plenty more I'm missing, I'm sure.
Toyta and Honda are owned by no one, last time I checked, although:
Toyota makes Lexus. If this aint common knowledge, nothing is.
Honda makes Acura, see above comment.
Also, Nissan owns Datsun and Prince.
It's safe to say that Vokswagon owns about 80 % of European car manufacturers.
Please, correct me on any of this info if I'm wrong. Just a tidbit FYI, since the topic came up and wasn't described very clearly, IMO.
Bye!

peejay

It's more in-depth than that. AMC was bought by Renault. Now, the Federal Gummint didn't want our military vehicles built by an outside country, or maybe it was just they didn't want them built by a company owned by a French company (we get F-16 wings from Fuji Heavy Industries) so the military-truck operations are their own company, American General. Who was bought by GM, and the civilian version of their HMMWV was so successful that GM started making a half-price version of it (the H2) which is just a widebody version of their generic GM light truck chassis.

Anyway Renault owned AMC/Jeep and generally screwed things up heavily and ChryCo was seeking to bargain out of an agreement with Renault, so we agreed to buy Jeep/Eagle (Eagle being the Automaker Formerly Known as AMC - the Eagle being the last AMC model, and Eagle-the-company's first car was the Premier which was just a crappy Renault, yes I know that is redundant) in trade. So Mopar got Jeep - which was a big plus, and they spent money there and gained it back many times over. And they got Eagle, which generally sucked, so they tried to turn it into a "performance" division of ChryCo, and a way of selling cars at Jeep dealerships, but that generally failed miserably and so the Eagle brand was scrapped.

Not quite. Nissan was sold as Datsun in the US until 1983. In 1983 the cars were badged "Datsun by Nissan". In 1984, the cars were badged Nissan.

A better analogy would be if Honda had only ever sold cars here as Acuras, and then one day decided, nah screw that, let's stick with one name for the whole world.

jays83gsl

Thanks for clarification. So, I missed Renault too! I truly didn't know a bit of that! Well, except for the Datsun/Nissan thing.
I do always get a laugh at JDM/Ricer people who rag on the Eagle Talon, and drive up in their little Mitsu Eclipse. O_o LOL!

purple82

It's getting further and further off the subject, but what the hell...

Jeep is what's left of AMC, but Jeep was bought by AMC (from ******) in the 50s (I think it was the 50s). Eagle never really had any old AMC products that I can remember, it was a division made up of cars that could be sold along side Jeeps in dealerships. It was supposed to be a "Euro" style company, whatever.

Mitsubishi isn't and never was a part of Chrysler. Diamler-Chrysler owns a minority of Mitsubishi stock but they are independent entities.

Diamler-Benz and Chrysler "merged". Meaning no one bought anyone, they combined assets. The fact that all of the upper management within the company is now German means that most of the direction is dictated by the Diamler side, but they are a merged company.

GM doesn't actually own Subaru either. It's like D-C and Mitsubishi. They're a minority stock holder. They also own Opel in Europe and Holden in Austrailia.

VW owns Siat, Audi, Bugatti and Rolls. i can't think of any others. Curiously, Audi owns Lamboghini, not VW.

Porsche is totally independant and proud of it, apperantly.

jays83gsl

Holden, that's the one I forgot! The GTO
I thought VW owned Audi? Wrong again, Jay!
Thanks for further clarification on the Mitsu Dodge thing. I still see more Mitsu in Dodges than Daimler. Meh.
Once again, thanks for the additions. Is there a "General" topics area where this should be moved to, btw?

purple82

You are right, VW does own Audi, but Audi owns Lambo.

jays83gsl

So, in chain effect, VW owns Lambo, that's what I'm gettin' at
Who owns Bimmer nowsadays? Volky?
What about Italian Crap, er, Ferrari? (sorry, can't help myself)