Where is this oil coming from?
03-21-11, 11:02 AM
#1
Oil Leak
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Where is this oil coming from?
Did a little cruise around town in my newly acquired 83, filled up, and decided to pop the hood when I got home when I noticed this oil. Where is it coming from? How concerned should I be?
http://i53.tinypic.com/2epst9t.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/2epst9t.jpg
03-21-11, 12:22 PM
#2
hard to tell really. the oil looks somewhat clean which makes me think at forst that it was spilled when added. do you notice any other place that its leaking oil? the main concern is a faulty o-ring between the side housing and the rotor housing. this will cause oil to seep out and puddle in the dip where the 12A engine code is cast into the housing.. clean it off really well and drive it and see if you get the same puddling. if not we can look elsewhere. look around the upper front cover area for any leakage.
03-21-11, 12:32 PM
#3
If I don't say it, somebody else will. That's what people call the leak of death. Sounds scary but it's not. All it is is a leak coming from the o-ring up under where it says Mazda 12A to the left and right (where side plate meets housing). There's an o-ring on each side that gets hard with age and heat from the beehive and no longer seals perfectly resulting in a little puddle of oil where you see it.
The engine can run for years like this but it's best to plan to do a quickie rebuild as soon as practical for your budget. Good time to start learning the basics like purchasing a rebuild video (the Atkins or Mazdatrix ones are good I hear). Or start looking for another 12A to swap right in so the car is down for just a short period of time, and then you'll have a nice opportunity to tear down and rebuild your 12A.
Or look for a 13B, but 90% of what you'll find out there are the modern fuel injected ones making simple installs in a first gen more complicated. I prefer the old school carbed 13Bs personally but anyway you'll need at a bare minimum a GSL-SE oil pan and maybe a 12A front cover depending on where the engine came from (2nd gen front covers and oil pans are a whole lot different). Reason is our engines mount on the front and 2nd gens mount on the intermediate plate. FDs mount on the rear plate. You'll also require a Racing Beat front mount bar which allows the slightly longer 13B to fit without hassles. That 20mm length difference (3/4") doesn't sound like much, but it is when you're installing an engine.
You've got plenty of time to plan your next move. The leak of death really means the leak of opportunity. These cars are so easy to work on compared to everything else out there you'd be doing yourself a favor and learning to do an engine swap all at the same time.
The engine can run for years like this but it's best to plan to do a quickie rebuild as soon as practical for your budget. Good time to start learning the basics like purchasing a rebuild video (the Atkins or Mazdatrix ones are good I hear). Or start looking for another 12A to swap right in so the car is down for just a short period of time, and then you'll have a nice opportunity to tear down and rebuild your 12A.
Or look for a 13B, but 90% of what you'll find out there are the modern fuel injected ones making simple installs in a first gen more complicated. I prefer the old school carbed 13Bs personally but anyway you'll need at a bare minimum a GSL-SE oil pan and maybe a 12A front cover depending on where the engine came from (2nd gen front covers and oil pans are a whole lot different). Reason is our engines mount on the front and 2nd gens mount on the intermediate plate. FDs mount on the rear plate. You'll also require a Racing Beat front mount bar which allows the slightly longer 13B to fit without hassles. That 20mm length difference (3/4") doesn't sound like much, but it is when you're installing an engine.You've got plenty of time to plan your next move. The leak of death really means the leak of opportunity. These cars are so easy to work on compared to everything else out there you'd be doing yourself a favor and learning to do an engine swap all at the same time.
03-21-11, 12:53 PM
#4
Oil Leak
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Cleaned it off and drove it again, another pool about the same size, more to the left of the 12A emblem.
How much does it cost to have that o-ring replaced? Other than wasting oil, are there any other concerns with this leak?
How much does it cost to have that o-ring replaced? Other than wasting oil, are there any other concerns with this leak?
03-21-11, 01:28 PM
#5
Yep that's the Dreaded O Ring Leak of Death all right. Except like Jeff says, it's not really. An engine rebuild or replacement might be in your future, but in the mean time you can drive it as long as you can afford the added oil and don't mind the oil spots in the drive.
And there are some things you can do to slow it down or even stop it. The easiest most effective thing is to use an oil additive that will condition the seals to slow the leak. I had great luck with this on my first 84 GSL, it leaked about as bad as yours when I first got it and I was thinking rebuild for sure.
But then I tried some of this Golden Eagle Engine Stop Leak and Whoaa! The leak went from drip drip drip to almost nothing. I continued adding the stop leak at each oil change and the leak kept getting smaller and smaller. Never quite went away but I did continue to drive the car for another 5 years and 50,000 miles without any engine problems. When I scrapped that 84 GSL the engine was still running strong.
Another thing I've seen done is, believe it or not, use some J-B Weld or similar epoxy material to seal the leak from the outside. Obviously this needs to be done carefully, clean bare metal is necessary and you need to put down a good base to get a seal, but if done right it works.
Good luck and welcome to the world of rotaries!
Jeff, congrats on Post #11,000!
And there are some things you can do to slow it down or even stop it. The easiest most effective thing is to use an oil additive that will condition the seals to slow the leak. I had great luck with this on my first 84 GSL, it leaked about as bad as yours when I first got it and I was thinking rebuild for sure.
But then I tried some of this Golden Eagle Engine Stop Leak and Whoaa! The leak went from drip drip drip to almost nothing. I continued adding the stop leak at each oil change and the leak kept getting smaller and smaller. Never quite went away but I did continue to drive the car for another 5 years and 50,000 miles without any engine problems. When I scrapped that 84 GSL the engine was still running strong.
Another thing I've seen done is, believe it or not, use some J-B Weld or similar epoxy material to seal the leak from the outside. Obviously this needs to be done carefully, clean bare metal is necessary and you need to put down a good base to get a seal, but if done right it works.
Good luck and welcome to the world of rotaries!
Jeff, congrats on Post #11,000!
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03-21-11, 02:30 PM
#11
Oil Leak
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I don't exactly have $1500+ to spend on a rebuild at the moment, and this car needs to work for a good 5-6 months. I'd prefer a quick fix for now and a rebuild possibly over the winter.
03-21-11, 04:11 PM
#12
it doesn't have to cost $1500. if the engine is otherwise healthy, all you'd need is a soft seal/gasket kit (although, at minimum, i'd look seriously at new springs, too) and the time it would take to pull the engine, clean it and rebuild. it can be done in a weekend if you can get everything together and anticipate/preempt any reasonabe other issues.
aside from the annoyance and mess, as Jeff said, you can continue to drive the car until fixing it is more convenient to you. if you don't feel up to it, i'm fairly sure you can find someone in your area that would be willing to help. find that person and you can work out whatever details needed between the both of you.
03-21-11, 04:25 PM
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Oil Leak
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Anyone in the Twin Cities/MN area willing/able to help would be much appreciated. I am going to try a bottle of stop leak for the time being, anything it gums up can be cleaned during a rebuild anyway.
03-21-11, 05:19 PM
#16
Here's the stuff I used Gamah that fixed a leak that looked a lot like yours:
Like I said, it cut a drip drip drip (~1 qt every 3-400 miles) to practically nothing, down to normal consumption for a 12A. And that was in a nice strong motor that kept running strong for another 50,000 miles. Theory vs. practice, if you will.
I added 1 bottle of this stuff at every 3000-5000 mile oil change and used Castrol 20-50W to give the oil a little extra body. No more drip drip. No more big oil smoke clouds at start up in the morning.
Try it, you'll like it. If it doesn't work then you can rebuild the engine for $1500, $1000, $500 or whatever.
About a hundred times more expensive than the Stop Leak.
Like I said, it cut a drip drip drip (~1 qt every 3-400 miles) to practically nothing, down to normal consumption for a 12A. And that was in a nice strong motor that kept running strong for another 50,000 miles. Theory vs. practice, if you will.
I added 1 bottle of this stuff at every 3000-5000 mile oil change and used Castrol 20-50W to give the oil a little extra body. No more drip drip. No more big oil smoke clouds at start up in the morning.
Try it, you'll like it. If it doesn't work then you can rebuild the engine for $1500, $1000, $500 or whatever.
About a hundred times more expensive than the Stop Leak.
03-21-11, 05:36 PM
#17
03-21-11, 06:34 PM
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however ive also had a couple that i drove for 10-20k BEFORE i fixed the leak. if you don't let the oil build up too much its ok.
i haven't had a 12A rx7 that DIDN'T leak there.
imo i'd try the stop leak, but the Jb weld method doesn't work, ive bought a couple cars with all kinds of creative things bonded to the leak, and it doesn't work, IMO.
the one that caught fire was fun, there was like 2" of silicon and JB weld and stuff on there, the main structure of the "repair" was a bottle cap
03-21-11, 07:22 PM
#21
Definitely a serious leak. The seller should have disclosed that before you bought it.
And yeah, the JB weld idea is sketchy, but it can't hurt and I've seen some decent efforts. Bottle caps are probably not a good idea.
Still, there's worse things that could happen. Put some oil in that thing and take it for a drive.
And yeah, the JB weld idea is sketchy, but it can't hurt and I've seen some decent efforts. Bottle caps are probably not a good idea.
Still, there's worse things that could happen. Put some oil in that thing and take it for a drive.
and a pad and pen...class is session...you owe me a 6pack...
If you plan it well you could get it done over the course of two days. Good luck with the rebuild. 
03-27-11, 08:27 AM
#24
Oil Leak
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My engine is losing over a quart of oil per 100 miles... I got scammed hard. I'm in the process of being forced to quit my job or face being fired, and low on cash. Can anyone in the twincities help me out? You will be repaid, eventually.
03-27-11, 12:50 PM
#25
Low Budget Solution to the O ring oil leak:
1) Change your oil to fresh 20-50W oil (Castrol preferred). Old lighter oil will leak faster than fresh heavier oil. That should help some.
2) Add the engine oil stop leak, this will condition the seals and may help slow the leak significantly.
These two things can slow a serious leak and make it manageable. Have you done them yet?
1) Change your oil to fresh 20-50W oil (Castrol preferred). Old lighter oil will leak faster than fresh heavier oil. That should help some.
2) Add the engine oil stop leak, this will condition the seals and may help slow the leak significantly.
These two things can slow a serious leak and make it manageable. Have you done them yet?