BrewerBob

Ok, guys advice time again.

This car is in deseperate need of springs and shocks. Even small bumps cause the tires to rub. At 65 to 70 mph the nose starts wanting to "float". It's lifting and looking for a new direction to go in.

I can get the rear end to come around even at very low speeds (25-30 mph). This can't be normal. The handling is awful.

So, here's what I'm looking at....

1. Eibach springs and adjustable perches. 350lbs front and 175 rear.

2. Tokico "Illumina 5" since they can be adjusted without compressing like the Koni's.

3. And new bushings.

This all adds up to just over $800 from Ground Control. I'm going to skip the camber plates and front sway bar for now. With those included the total would be just under $1200.

I've heard a lot of good things about Ground Control but aren't they just reselling someone else's parts? Are there cheaper resellers for the same parts?

Is skipping the sway bar and camber plates a mistake? I'm going to get them later just now right now. They can be added after the rest of the stuff right?

nosajwrx-7

Well, I would get the swaybar now, and if I planned on getting c/c plates I would also to that now due to the different size shock attachment hole. Making it necessary to buy different shocks, or modify stock, if even possible. Also don't forget shock bumpers. Are you planning on doing anything to the rear suspension other than shocks and springs?

BrewerBob

Oops, I stole this from another thread I had and I forgot to mention the other details.

Ok, I'm driving this car to work yesterday and today but it will be a autox and track car. I want it to be IT-7 legal which will also put me in CSP for autoxing. I will do mostly autoxing since it only requires $20 at a time.

I'm going with 350lb fronts and 175lb rears. I plan to switch to a GSL rear end (limited slip and disc brakes). I've been told the rear sway bar is fine or to even take it off and chuck it in the woods.

I haven't called back to Ground Control yet but I am only going to skip the camber plates and front sway bar if they can be added later with no extra work. I'm not modifying ANYTHING!! Otherwise I guess I'll bite the bullet and buy everything at one time.

nosajwrx-7

LIke I said I would get the sway bar now, because you have to dismantle the tension rod bracket to change it! IIRC.

BRealistic

Why is the sway bar so important? My car already corners flat, and has new bushings and shocks, but the springs are original and starting to sag- especially the driver's rear. I have noticed that many special factory performance cars have been handled differently than usual- the 93 Cobra and new MazdaSpeed Protege come to mid- where they went for soft springs and quality shocks, and VERY stiff sway bars. Anybody tried this? I guess it gives you the cornering power, but still allows movement for ther suspension over bumps in corners.

Chrisman1969

I just did this set of mods to my car, including the caster camber plates and the sway bars. It makes a huge difference in the way the car handles.

If you get the tokico illumina's, you have to have the shaft turned down, by a machine shop, a little at the top to fit the caster/camber mount(not a big deal). If you do the caster camber later, that wont be a huge issue, you will just have to take the struts out to be machined.

I am in the process of building a webpage about it. Let me know if you have any questions.

Chris

nosajwrx-7

My only point was that if he plans to do it anyway. Now would be less work. Thanks for the info. on the shock modifications Chris. I will keep that in mind in the future for my car.

BrewerBob

Nosa,
I'm not worried about extra work later (having to take something off to add the new part) but I don't want to buy the shocks or springs if they won't fit without the camber plates.

Chris,
The Ground Control site sells everything together and it is supposed to all bolt up without any machining or drilling. Is this not true?

All,
What other vendors are out there? Ground Control is half the price of everyone else I've seen. Are they the cheapest?

nosajwrx-7

I have their coil-over kit that requires cutting off the old perches and welding on new ones, they do sell drop in though, they are notched to sit on the factory perches. The only real difference is you can go lower with the weld ons. IIRC.

BrewerBob

Maybe I'd better get some more info. I thought everything under there was coming out. There would be a bolt pattern at the top and bottom that matched teh new stuff. The spindle, lower control amrs and what-not would still be there but the strut, shock, and spring are replaced.

nosajwrx-7

The strut housing and spindles are the same beast. The perch is attached to the upper portion of the strut housing and the shocks go inside them. You would keep your stock strut housings unless they are 79-80, or unless you want a larger brake. If you have an 84-85 disregard the last part. Those are the ideal housings. Either way you have the option of removing the factory perch and replacing it with ground-control perch plate for more height adjustability. Oh and again, Good Luck!

Random

The big front sway bar will help you put down the power and reduce that oversteer you complained about.

If you want to go the cheapest route, I'd replace your shocks and get the front bar and then evaluate from there.

abeomid

Totally agree with the last post. Sway-bar is the single important suspension part on a first gen. Most of the time the soft ride is due to shocks. Springs usually don't fail unless they are rusted or stay compressed for too long. Just do the shock and swaybar and go from there.

BrewerBob

Damn, I do keep forgetting stuff. It is an '85 GS stock. Green, if that makes a difference.

Or, unless the yours has almost 168,000 miles on the odometer and is sagging!!

Sagging is the springs. The shocks are there to prevent the spring from oscillating after compression (i.e. you hit a bump and your car is bouncing up and down a mile down the road).

BRealistic

That wasn't me complaining about the rear end- I wish mine was actually easier to step out in corners. But mine gets scary on the bumpy stuff- which I attribute to the old saggy springs limiting travel. BTW I still have the stock sways- front and back, and the front has new bushings.

Manntis

SWAY BAR.

I added a horse-**** thick swaybar from Racing Beat and it made a huge difference in cornering. One can install a swaybar with otherwise softish springs - in fact, some manufacturers and tuner cars prefer that setup as a compromise between cornering like a bastard yet keeping your kidneys unbruised over bumps

Random

Sorry, got you mixed up with the original poster!

Scariness in the bumps is a function of a) live axle rear end and b) shocks.

FWIW, I am very happy with my set-up: 1-1/8" front sway, Eibach Prokit springs, and Tokico Blue shocks/struts.

bliffle

Adding tokico blues to my 83 GS was the best thing I've done. Steps righyt around corners now, and I didn't change the springs or the sway bar. Doesn't feel so much like a live axle anymore.

B

BrewerBob

I have two kidneys so I'm not too worried about them. I want the "go-kart on a rail". But I'm also willing to take my time getting there. I have the money but there's just something wrong with spending $1200 all at once. I guess that's why everything is $19.99 on TV and in stores.

By the way, just how big of a horse was it? The sway bar I'm looking at is 1 1/8". That seems to be the standard size that everyone is using.

vipernicus42

iTrader: (4)

Edit: My original stupidity and tiredness made me read the subject, post, then read the rest... so for all of you to laugh at my idiocy, I'm leaving up my original post of the "Perfect 1st Gen Setup"... basically... what I'd have my ENTIRE CAR setup with if I were rich.

And to think, I was just thinking of what I'd do to mine if I won the lotto this weekend

Engine:
Street Ported 13b

Fuel/Intake:
An RB Holley Street Port carburetor
A Carter Fuel Pump (or maybe something quieter)
A Fuel Pressure Regulator
The Stainless lines like DirectFreak did

Suspension:
Tokico adjustible shocks
RB spring set and sway bars
Strut Tower Braces front and back
Polyurethane Bushings

Steering:
The Rack & Pinion Setup CP Racing is working on

Brakes/Rear End:
GSL-SE LSD Rear
Cross-drilled rotors
Hawk HP+ Pads
4-piston caliper conversion
Stainless Steel Brake Lines

Ignition:
The coils and setup I saw on Paul Yaw's site.. It seemed pretty solid.

Exhaust:
RB Street Port Exhaust, of course!

Wheels:
I dunno.. but a nice set of rims that would fit the 4xWhatever the LSD has... Two sets of 4 Rims.. one with Racing Tires (13s or 14s) and one set of road tires (14s or 15s)

Other Stuff:
A Nice (read: quality percision, not loud boom) sound system. So a CD Deck that plays MP3s, an amp, and probably 2 high quality 8" subs in the bins behind the seat, as well as some good quality speakers for the back and front stock positions.

And I'd have them repaint the entire car, engine bay, underside and all while they had the engine out and the suspension off. Either gunmetal blue or speckled silver (my stock colour).

Anything I missed?

Jon

Jaye

Remember that sway bars will affect the balance as well as reduce body roll. Stiff bars on the rear (stiffer than the fronts) will move the car toward over steer. The opposite will move in the direction of understeer. Dial in a little understeer/neutral for the street and a little oversteer/neutral for the track.

Softer springs are better for compliance over bumpy roads and when combined with very good shocks are probably the way to go. Personally, I would use the spring/shock/wheel/tire combination to get the max mechanical grip, then use sway bars to balance the car.

adssoccer

do it all at once man, you'll love it. the tokicos are great, lemme tell ya. and definitely get at least the front sway bar, it makes a huge difference. i also have rb's adjustable rear bar, and after a few autox's i got it tuned in just the way i like it, now the car corners freakin awesome, its balanced and predictable, set up just perfect for me. if i had more money i would have not hesitated a second to get the ground control coil overs and camber plates. the stiffer springs (i have RB ones right now) wouldnt make a huge difference. well, they'll make a difference over stock, but nothing really really big compared to what i have now. but i would recomend the camber plates. i think my stock settings are at like -.7 degrees or something like that. if for no other reason, it would let me drop the tire pressure in the front a bit. im running 40-41 lbs in the front just to keep from riding on my sidewalls, plus with my setup i do push a bit. so the camber plates would help that. basically, if you're planning on doing it anyway, why not go all out now and get the car all dialed in with this set up now? just my opinion