1st Generation Specific (1979-1985) 1979-1985 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections

What the hell is going on!

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Old 03-10-05, 08:15 PM
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Rockn' The Galant

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What the hell is going on!

Well,

Our cars are supposed to do a 16.1 in the 1/4 mile time STOCK right? Well my car did a 17.2 on the g-tech and my friend did a 17.1 on the g-tech and the 0-60 was a 10.72 for my friend and a 10.28 for me...

I've replaced the following;

Alternator (S4 Alt)
Fuel Filter
Spark Plugs
Wires
Coils
Distributor
Suspension (all)

And a couple of other things not of the top of my head;

What the hell is going on? Should I just save up for a rebuild? The fuel pump hasn’t been replaced yet and the exhaust has a leak in it by the cats.

Should I save for a rebuild?
Try to solve the problem else where?

If it helps any, my car drinks coolant everyone in a while...

- Tech
Old 03-10-05, 08:22 PM
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Mmmm Cheeze....

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Well, considering that your car is 20 years old, I would say that you are just fine. If you want more power, do a few bolt on mods. With the bolt ons and tuning you could probably bring it down to 14-15's fairly easy.
Old 03-10-05, 08:28 PM
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Rockn' The Galant

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Phew,

Will souping up the intake side (new straight pipe) do any good?

I need to get an electric fan, what's the best and where can I get it?

- Tech
Old 03-10-05, 08:38 PM
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Stock numbers were generated on:

1.) A fresh engine. You engine has however many miles on it worth of wear, and hence has lost a little bit of compression...

2.) Brand new injectors. Yours have countless tanks worth of sediment partially clogging them...

3.) A brand new exhaust. Your cats probably have years worth of gunk in them...

4.) A perfectly level test track... Try going the opposite direction on the same road.

5.) With a professional driver. You're 18. You've yet to gain the experience of the precise time to shift, the perfect timing of the clutch... Not knocking you, but someone who does this day in and day out for a living probably drives better than you or I.

6.) Prefect weather conditions... Cold air makes for more power, hence turbo cars have an intercooler... N/A's have cold air intakes... Try the test at another time in differnet conditions.

7.) The qtr mile was actually tested with a clock. The G-Tech, as cool of a little device as it is. (I own two.) is only good for estimates. Mounting, slope of the road, vibration, etc are all factors that'll throw off it's readings.

That said, there's so many things that'll change the numbers... More than you can imagine. Hell... The numbers will probably change over several trial runs. Just keep doing it.
Old 03-10-05, 08:49 PM
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Where can I find new injectors?

Turbo, can you adapt a 13B TII turbo to a regular 13B, if so this would be the first thing I want to do...

I know I'm no pro, but we both made about 20 passes all together on the gtech and kept trying different shift poitnts in each gear.

We did tests on both sides of the road, we actually were sitting in the middle of the opposite side of the road when a cop passed, didnt even care either.

I'd much rather not go through the trouble of buying a new engine so fast, it's got a 123k on this current engine...
Old 03-10-05, 09:02 PM
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8krpm is not enough

 
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Originally Posted by Tech_Greek
Where can I find new injectors?
RC Engineering will clean, balance and blueprint the injectors for you. They are quite popular on the 'big-list'

Originally Posted by Tech_Greek
Turbo, can you adapt a 13B TII turbo to a regular 13B, if so this would be the first thing I want to do...
Yes, but it's not bolt-on at all, nor can you run as much boost as you could by doing a 13BT engine swap.

Originally Posted by Tech_Greek
I know I'm no pro, but we both made about 20 passes all together on the gtech and kept trying different shift poitnts in each gear.

We did tests on both sides of the road, we actually were sitting in the middle of the opposite side of the road when a cop passed, didnt even care either.
Reguardless - the gtech is known to be very touchy. 17 secs is pretty much average for a 20+ year old car.


Originally Posted by Tech_Greek
I'd much rather not go through the trouble of buying a new engine so fast, it's got a 123k on this current engine...
So don't? You can probably approach stock performance with basic bolt ons, perhaps even surpass them.
Old 03-10-05, 09:05 PM
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Rockn' The Galant

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Originally Posted by speckamp
RC Engineering will clean, balance and blueprint the injectors for you. They are quite popular on the 'big-list'
Problem is, this is my daily driver, the options of engine swap, etc aren't viable until the engine blows . Do these injectors yield that big of a boost? Is it worth it in your opinion.

Originally Posted by speckamp
Yes, but it's not bolt-on at all, nor can you run as much boost as you could by doing a 13BT engine swap.
So, I should work on finding a TII engine for the turbo swap? Why can you not run as much boost?

Originally Posted by speckamp
Reguardless - the gtech is known to be very touchy. 17 secs is pretty much average for a 20+ year old car.
Yeah, we ran a 14.3 on his cougar which he does 14.2 in at the track so it was pretty damned accurate for him.

What bolt ons are we talking about here?
Old 03-10-05, 09:40 PM
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exhaust intake ignition pulleys...u cant run as much boost because a stock engine can only handle a certain amount if u want to go more...ur looking at rebuilding with fresh seals and streetport and also upgrade the apex seals to those that can handle mroe compression...im sure theres more stuff but im not too sure
Old 03-10-05, 09:46 PM
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Well,

The ignition has been done,

I've got a new double belt alt pulley but havent had a time to go look for a belt.

The exhaust will be next I think. I don't care about running 22 PSI of boost, a little bit is perfectly fine with me.

- Tech
Old 03-10-05, 10:26 PM
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Wassup!!

 
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Originally Posted by Tech_Greek
Well,

The ignition has been done,

I've got a new double belt alt pulley but havent had a time to go look for a belt.

The exhaust will be next I think. I don't care about running 22 PSI of boost, a little bit is perfectly fine with me.

- Tech
Lmao, You show me one person that's gone forced induction that hasn't been bit by the boost bug.
Old 03-10-05, 10:29 PM
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Rockn' The Galant

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problem is, no one knows how to do a second gen turbo to first gen 13b from what I've seen, any links, etc?
Old 03-10-05, 11:06 PM
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Hrm... my 12a with exhaust runs about 8.22 0-60 and 15.7 1/4. G-tech only, so the #'s could be off. I'm going to say they're correct though, because I don't want to dissappoint myself
Old 03-10-05, 11:20 PM
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ahahah u sure it isn't 1/8th mile
Old 03-10-05, 11:20 PM
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Times/power

the first thing you need to do is run a can of a injection cleaner called 44k made by
BG products. will only find at dealer ships or repair shops. Runs about $22-$25 for
a can. Put it in with only a 1/4 tank of fuel and run it untilit is almost empty. You will
not need to have your injectors cleaned after that. I currently own 2 se's. You need to check compression and fuel pressure/volume, make sure that the filter has been changed within the last 30k. the best investment you can make on your se is the RB exhaust. this is where you will notice the power gain and a very noticeable one at that. 2nd, put on a lightened steel flywheel. It does not add HP
but frees it up. the rev times are much quicker as the acceleration. Rx7 carl is experimenting with porting the t/body for better a/flow on the se's. I have run the s4 t/body and intake system which has much better flow by far than the se with a
good improvement in throttle response. Making sure that you only run ngk plugs and good wires like ngk's or ones that i run which are accels 300+ thundersports.
Upgrading the coil system on the leading side with the dis from the s4's will not add Hp but give you a better burn. Currently i have ported the stock intake system
and am in the middle of reassembly to see what if any gains i have accomplished.
Need to remove the stock restrictive air box and fabricate a cai system. Not to hard to do. You can get the adapter for the afm from autozone and set it up with a good cone filter from Kn. this is much cheaper than buying a kit. You can fabricate the piping from the t/body to the afm. I can have a fellow member that i fabricated his cai on his s4 e-mail apicture to you. I also relocated the ats ( air temp sensor) from the side of the plenum chamber to the cai piping to read colder air.
I can only say this. When i ran the s4 intake system on my se with the rb header and lightened steel flywheel and cai. I could break the tires loose thru 2nd and throw it sideways in 3rd. It is not ported either and has approx 140k on the motor. I'd stay away from the dual pulley setups, they are not needed for our motors. only used on high rpm engines for racing. Your money is better spent on other items. A electric fan is a good idea, another way to reduce inertia from the motor freeing up the useable hp. Any more questions just feel free to pm me. Always happy to help out a fellow se owner. Have owned one for over 17 years.
rx7doctor
Old 03-10-05, 11:25 PM
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pretty sure the gsl-se ran a 16.9 stock sorry..
Old 03-10-05, 11:29 PM
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Times

Originally Posted by Moonchopper
Hrm... my 12a with exhaust runs about 8.22 0-60 and 15.7 1/4. G-tech only, so the #'s could be off. I'm going to say they're correct though, because I don't want to dissappoint myself
As much as i hav eheard about the g-tech, never used one. Seems like a neat little toy, but toy at that, i do not see how it could be that accurate.
As far as 15.7 1/4 mile times in a stock 12a, i'd say your g-tech is off. The factory test times when the se came out in 84 with 30hp more ran 16.1 times with 0-60 of
8.0 seconds. With a 12a non ported with Rb exhaust and a 44phh mikuni i could see that. The average 0-60 times were 7.7 seconds with 142 dynoed hp. rx7doctor
Old 03-10-05, 11:56 PM
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Bah, some gadget can't compare to a good ol' track stopwatch.
Old 03-11-05, 07:21 AM
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Exactly,

So, exhaust is my best bet for improving my times so far...

Pre-Silencer or Straight Pipe (Cat Pipe) - No Emissions Here
Old 03-11-05, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rx7doctor
the first thing you need to do is run a can of a injection cleaner called 44k made by
BG products. will only find at dealer ships or repair shops. Runs about $22-$25 for
a can. Put it in with only a 1/4 tank of fuel and run it untilit is almost empty. You will
not need to have your injectors cleaned after that.
I used mmo a while back but will that clog up my fuel filter? Is there any way I could order this online becasuse the bone heads at the local mazda dealerships dont know anything.


I currently own 2 se's. You need to check compression and fuel pressure/volume, make sure that the filter has been changed within the last 30k.
I don't trust the local mazda dealership to do a compression check on it. Filter is the same from when I bought the car, looks to be FRAM

the best investment you can make on your se is the RB exhaust. this is where you will notice the power gain and a very noticeable one at that.
Exhaust first then...

2nd, put on a lightened steel flywheel. It does not add HP
but frees it up. the rev times are much quicker as the acceleration.
I shouldn't go with the alum one?

Rx7 carl is experimenting with porting the t/body for better a/flow on the se's. I have run the s4 t/body and intake system which has much better flow by far than the se with a
good improvement in throttle response.
I'll be a test rat if need be...S4 is the 86+ Intake right? Is it a direct bolt-on?

Making sure that you only run ngk plugs and good wires like ngk's or ones that i run which are accels 300+ thundersports
NGK R Plugs are in there and BOSCH wires...

Upgrading the coil system on the leading side with the dis from the s4's will not add Hp but give you a better burn.
I've got Crane PS20 Fireballs

Not to hard to do. You can get the adapter for the afm from autozone and set it up with a good cone filter from Kn. this is much cheaper than buying a kit. You can fabricate the piping from the t/body to the afm. I can have a fellow member that i fabricated his cai on his s4 e-mail apicture to you. I also relocated the ats ( air temp sensor) from the side of the plenum chamber to the cai piping to read colder air.
So, wait until I have the S4 intake to upgrade the intake piping...

I'd stay away from the dual pulley setups, they are not needed for our motors. only used on high rpm engines for racing. Your money is better spent on other items.
I've already got a dual alt pulley just havent put it on yet...

A electric fan is a good idea, another way to reduce inertia from the motor freeing up the useable hp. Any more questions just feel free to pm me. Always happy to help out a fellow se owner. Have owned one for over 17 years.
What's the best e-fan? Is it direct bolt on? Etc

Known as an 'FB' type due to its VIN number, the 1985 model (P130) was essentially unchanged from 1984, filling in the time until Mazda released the series 4 RX-7 (FC).


General Data

Models: S
GS
GSL
GSL-SE
Engine: 12A (1146 CC displacement) rotary
2 stage 4 barrel carburetor
normally aspirated
101 bhp SAE net @ 6000 rpm
105 lb-ft torque @ 4000 rpm
9.4:1 compression ratio
21 mpg city/30 mpg highway
13B (1308 CC displacement) rotary
Electronic Fuel Injection
normally aspirated
135 bhp SAE net @ 6000 rpm
133 lb-ft torque @ 2750 rpm
9.4:1 compression ratio
18 mpg city/29 mpg highway

Transmission: 1st 3.674:1
2nd 2.217:1
3rd 1.432:1
4th 1.000:1
5th (GS) 0.825:1
Reverse 3.542:1
Final Drive 3.909:1

GSL-SE 5 speed
1st 3.622:1
2nd 2.186:1
3rd 1.419:1
4th 1.000:1
5th 0.760:1
Reverse 3.493:1
Final Drive 4.080:1

Brakes: 226mm (8.9 in) Vented Disc front
200 x 33mm (7.9 x 1.3 in) Drum rear Solid Disc rear (GSL) Vented Disc rear (GSL-SE)
Vacuum assist front-rear hydraulic split
Suspension: Macpherson strut front w. 23 mm (0.91 in) anti-roll bar
Watt linkage live axle rear

Steering: Recirculating ball type
38mm (1.5 in) offset
33mm shaft diameter
15 degree distortion @ 7.2 lbs-ft torque
variable overall ratio 17-20:1
3.7 turns (lock to lock)
31.5 ft turning circle

Wheelbase: 2420mm (95.3 in)
Wheels: 13" alloy
110 mm bolt pattern

14" alloy
114.3 mm bolt pattern (GSL-SE)

Track: 1420/1400 mm (55.9/55.1 in) front/rear
Body: Unibody (monocoque)
6780 lb-ft torsional rigidity
.34 Cd
4320mm (170.1 in)long
1670mm (65.7 in) wide

Vehicle Weight: S (5 speed) 1065kg (2350 lbs)
GS (5 speed) 1080kg (2345 lbs)
GS (auto) 2420 lbs
GS (auto) 2410 lbs (Calif)
Acceleration 0-30 mph 2.8 sec
0-40 mph 4.3 sec
0-50 mph 6.3 sec
0-60 mph 8.7 sec
Old 03-11-05, 10:25 AM
  #20  
Right near Malloy

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Originally Posted by rx7doctor
As much as i hav eheard about the g-tech, never used one. Seems like a neat little toy, but toy at that, i do not see how it could be that accurate.
As far as 15.7 1/4 mile times in a stock 12a, i'd say your g-tech is off. The factory test times when the se came out in 84 with 30hp more ran 16.1 times with 0-60 of
8.0 seconds. With a 12a non ported with Rb exhaust and a 44phh mikuni i could see that. The average 0-60 times were 7.7 seconds with 142 dynoed hp. rx7doctor
It's an accelerometer coupled with a calculator and a simple timer

You mount it perfectly level in your car at a standstill... This calibrates it. That calibration is KEY, as it bases all it's calculations off it. That's also where ALL the errors come from.

Now the accelerometer, timer, and calculator can pretty much find out anyting you want. Let's say you accelerate at 10 MPH per sec... Ignoring the fact that nobody can launch at a perfect rate. Well simple math would put you at 10 mph in the 1st second, 20 MPH in the 2nd second, 30 MPH in the 3rd sec. 40 MPH in the 4th sec. 50 MPH in the 5th sec. And finally 60 MPH in the 6th sec...

0 to 60... 6 sec.

Reverse everything for 60 to 0.

Well how far have you come in those 6 sec? Your average speed over those 6 sec was 35 MPH... That's 51.3 feet per sec... In 6 sec. 307.8 feet...

Well, we can calculate speed based off acceleration and time, and we can use speed and time to calculate distance, let's run calculations up until distance = 1320 feet... (1/4 mile.) At that moment, we already have time as it was a base number of our calculations... And we have speed as one of our sub calculations... So flash up the ifnal speed reading and the final time reading...

Qtr mile time and trap speed.

But like I said, it's only as accurate as you set it. Mount it pointing slightly downwards and the earth's gravity will make it register as if you're constantly accelerating... And a suction cup to the windshield doesn't seem like the best mounting method to me.
Old 03-11-05, 12:11 PM
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What?

 
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Hey remember it is 20 years old. Ijust picked up a secound set of injectors for $50 from a member here. I had my originals clean for $30 from RC. Big difference.

Hey 700 posts!
Old 03-11-05, 01:21 PM
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mods/g-tech

Pele, thanks for the info, might buy one just just to have for when doing mods.
As far as the mods, lets cover them one by one.
Change filter for preventive maintenance (fuel) then do pressure/volume test.
Compression test, do yourself and fuel test also. Get haynes manual for details. Tools needed conventional compression tester, fuel pressure tester of injection,
higher psi reading.
Run presilencer so you will have proper backpressure for 5th/6th port actuators and also to mellow sound. Straight pipe will be ear deafing.
MMo will not harm any portion of fuel system. Bg online, i am not sure, will look into it for you but defintely the best chemicals on market. I know this from experience, was service manager for elite german repair facility for 5 years.
Aluminum flywheel= stalling problems for street driving, too light. Steel is just right
for your car.
S4 intake system, some mods, nothing difficult at all. Can give detailed info on that if want to pursue.
Pulleys, my opinion seel them and use money for other mods.
Electric fan- some people on forum use taurus and other ones. I recommend the black magic which puts out 2400cfm. Last time i checked with Napa they had lowered the price on them to around $250.00, if you have a AAA towing card sometimes the price will be lower for most purchases thru them.
rx7doctor
Old 03-11-05, 01:29 PM
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Lightbulb Addendum

Yes fan is direct bolt on to radiator, removing stock fan clutch using shorter bolts to hold pulley in place. recommend putting in fan switch in bottom of radiator so fan comes on and off at appropriate temps. Don't care for toggle switch or temp control that goes into top of radiator hose.

Wiat for piping until you decide which system you will use. Yes it is a s4 86-88 models. Can tell you exactly how to relocate air temp sensor into piping and what
type adapters you will need, also adapter and filter # to bolt directly to end of afm.
rx7doctor
think you should do this step by step though.
recommend testing first. make sure everything is ok there.
get your fuel system cleaner.
After testing and cleaning then mods.
After the bosch wires wear out then upgrade to accels 300+ thundersports you will like them. rx7doctor
Old 03-11-05, 01:33 PM
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Talking Posts

Originally Posted by John64
Hey remember it is 20 years old. Ijust picked up a secound set of injectors for $50 from a member here. I had my originals clean for $30 from RC. Big difference.

Hey 700 posts!
Rookie, lol just kidding. Well i have over 700 posts in less than a year and over 2000 pm's, no wonder i cant read my keyboard letters anymore, lol rx7doctor
Old 03-11-05, 06:35 PM
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Alright,

So how do I test the fuel psi and the compression on my car? I've got a brand new fuel filter in there so it shouldn’t be bad but I can't speak for the fuel pump, the car sat up for a year before I found it...

Also, what's the link to get my injectors cleaned? I might just buy a new set and send them straight to them...

How much of an upgrade is the S4 intake worth on our SEs?

I've got AAA Plus, where can I find the black magic fan at?

- Tech


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