XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Okay, I have a GSL-SE. Stock 6port 13b. What kind of numbers would a 48IDA be compared to the stock EFI numbers. I think I'll have around 145 hp with the EFI. I have heard up to 180hp with a Holley, and Weber.

There is no need to go carbie if I'm not getting any nice gains with my stock port motor. The conversion will be around $900 so I don't want to spend that much for 10hp.

Note: I will have a header, uncollected to the axel, all 2.5 exhaust, MSD 6a


Thanks Guys

Rotortuner

Im doing this conversion right now on my freinds car, an 86 NA. We are using an IDA. Pretty streight forward conversion, I think we will see some pretty good gains, IMO the sticj efi is really crap as far as im concerned. His engine befor would not even idle right and constantly ran like ****. I know there was probably something wrong with it but why waste the time, a good IDA set up will run excellent and they are extremely simple. Now we can actually SEE the engine with the carb on it. We probably gutted almost 30 lbs of **** out of the engine bay. We are putting a header on it. If your willing to wait, we might go dyno it at the end of next week. So we will see.

CJG

bill Shurvinton

Formula mazda cars were getting around 170 (have seen 180 published) from a stock engine. Really depends what you like. EFI is as cheap as carbs, but if you like carbs AND can tune them then carbs it is. If on the other hand you like EFI you can get more HP, drivability AND mpg for your money.

Also think about where you want to go. If at some point you want to go for porting as well how easy will it be to accomodate that.

fatboy7

I agree completely, but must add... The EFI on the -SE is pretty primative. Combine that with the fact that it is driven by a good number of sensors that too are old. Due to this (and perhaps other factors) my drivability is pretty poor in the -SE -- worse than my old 12A for sure. It's very hard to fix such problems as idle fluctuations, and surging ocsillations. Its also not easy or cheap to tune. Still a well tunned FI engine will outperform a carb in every aspect; power, drivability, fuel consumption, etc.

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Ya the simplicity of the setup is a beautiful thing. I just really didn't want to go carb unless I knew I was going to be getting some sweet gains. $850 is a big chunk of cash for 10hp 170-180hp however is just what I was wanting to hear.

Thanks

13B4port

think about a stand alone fuel manager. i've seen some go for 700, i'm goin to get one down the road b/4 november. maybe try that.

bill Shurvinton

A megasquirt is $120. Sure you solder it up yourself, but it is well proven on rotaries, from stock 12As to PPs. Having tuned my 13B 4-port on both DCOE and megasquirt I can say EFI is easier. I like carbs, but getting it spot on takes experience.

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

My $.02 I'd have to disagree that efi costs the same as a carb. New carbs and manifold can be had for less than half the cost of efi.

Agree wholeheartedly that EFI will make some more hp, better throttle response and slightly better mpg. But is it really worth the $$? Then again ~1-2 mpg better over a few years does add up.... I do think carbs are much easier to tune, just simpler. Does take skill to tune both. But if you're doing either of these yourself, you should have an air/fuel meter which helps extremely with tuning.

Later,

bill Shurvinton

I've built and tuned both on rotaries. carb is easy to get 'running'. To get it running 'right' is much harder unless you are experienced with carbs.

Anyway you have said carbs are less than half the cost. Give me some numbers and I will find EFI for a similar price either new or junkyard

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Ultimatly I agree that EFI is definatly a better way of induction. The SE intake is pretty limiting, quite small when compared to FC's. My point is this:

1. Get a IDA and with my header should be pushing close to 180hp= $900

2. Clean up my EFI, no emissions, cleaned injectors, header, open intake, Super AFC?, HP?? Don't know, need ideas with this.= $450

This is my delima!! I'm going single turbo on a REW later so this setup is fairly temporary.......

ANY ideas are apreciated!
THanks guys

bill Shurvinton

IDA EFI TB with all goodies $500
IDA manifold best I've seen $100, sometimes a little more
Injectors from $20-$80 each, depends if you go 2 or 4
Megasquirt $120

Best of it is, both the MS and IDA are great for turbo apps too.

Can't tell you exact HP, but it will look the business :-)

Bill

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Very intrueging bill. Where would I purchase a IDA TB with all the goodies? Would I retain my stock AFM? Is Megasquirt basicly like a AFC form Apexi?

Thanks

bill Shurvinton

For the TB email timstoys@earthlink.net

With any performance system there is no place for a nasty AFM. You would either run a MAP based system or a TPS based system.

MS is like an AFC in that it is a different ECU, but it is not plug and play like Apexi. I had assumed that, if you were considering carby you would be running clockwork ignition for the time being anyway. I am working on spark code for the rotary, but am trying to get my car running first. The system is not for everyone, but if you know which end of a soldering iron gets hot you wont have any problems. There is a big support network for it and plenty of rotary owners.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

180 sounds about right with the carbie in place (all things being equal and everything is tuned to perfection). If I remember correctly, RB quoted their SE exhaust system as bumping the SE from the stock 135 HP to like 160 (I think they had said 156 or something like that - too lazy to go get the manual from my room) - my point is we're talking about 20 HP for about $450 which I usually would regard as a good deal ... BUT ... then you said this ...
How much later is "later" and with what management system are you going to run that engine? I was thinking why not just start getting that together to run your engine (if it can) now.

If it can't ... then just do the cheaper thing, restore your EFI, tune it and leave it until it's time to install your new motor. I just don't see the point of buying a carbie for near a grand (and that doesn't count for accessories like new pump or pressure regulator, etc.) only for it to be tossed to the side when you get the Gen III setup.

If I'm missing something ... forgive me.

1

DriveFast7

iTrader: (1)

http://atkinsrotary.com/fuelinj.htm

Programmable Fuel Injection Systems

Complete Kits ready to bolt on

Computer, Harness, Throttle Position Sensor, Coolant Sensor, Air Temp Sensor,

Injectors (2), Fuel pump, Fuel Rail, Fuel Pressure Regulator, TWM Throttle Body & Manifold,

Crank Angle Sensor, Spark Plugs, & Wires.

The factory supplied programs contains a

set of load maps tailored to suit your engine.

12A-13B .....$3295.00

http://rotaryshack.com/

Weber Carbs.

Prices start at $375.00

Available Sizes:
40mm, 45mm, 48mm, 50mm

Manifolds are typically $250.

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

I see what ya mean. I will probably go Haltech or PowerFC. Since I live in WV, there arn't exactly loads of tuners around for the different standalone setups. PFS is in VA so thats not too far and I think there is a Haltech tuner in PA.

I think I have decided to bite the bullet and wait for my final setup. The thing doesn't run bad it just needs cleaned up.

However I have another problem. I have an uncollected header. Could I tap one of the pipes on the header for the O2 sensor and it still run ok? I know 02's are usually in a collected spot. But my exhaust will be collecting just before the axel. This setup will be temporary also, but isn't that hard or expensive to weld up.

P.S. when I say temporary, I'm looking at about 2 to 3 years before I will be ready for the BIG swap

THanks guys

bill Shurvinton

Those Atkins prices are way OTT.IMO if you are going to own a 20 year old car you should be the sort who is ready to get in there and do something, rather than just pay someone else to do it ( and this includes tuning)

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

I couldn't agree more bill!! The Atkins EFI is a major RIPOFF!! And I have been thinking of going ahead and getting the Haltech, and dialing it up for my current setup, and she would run way better I'm sure!

About the tuning, when it comes to running a serious setup, a wide band 02 sensor is a must. The seat of the pants can only take ya so far.

HELP ME!!!
I have an uncollected header. Could I tap one of the pipes on the header for the O2 sensor and it still run ok? I know 02's are usually in a collected spot. But my exhaust will be collecting just before the axel.
I guess this goes for the Haltech and stock setup. I just don't know, please enlighten

THanks

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

tap the pipe for the rear rotor, that's the important one. you can run your wideband from there. HAHAA ... learned that one from my time in the EFI/ECU section!

1

Tom

What part of West Virginia are you from? There are LOTS of Rx-7 enthusiasts that go to Summit Point Race Track in Jefferson County (Eastern Panhandle). I live about 10minutes from the track..

Bruceman

iTrader: (5)

Check this out

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ory=33553&rd=1

XLR8

iTrader: (52)

Tom:
I live in Ellenboro, a small town 30 miles from Parkersburg. Ya tom there are a few Rx7 enthusiasts out here. Quite a few of my close friends from high school have Rex's. But as far as a wide band goes, I'm gonna have to go to a city.

Bruceman: That is sweet! and cheap too. I think I am going Haltech after I finish my suspension and othere misc. It is one of the more expensive parts in my ultimate FB quest, plus it will work with my setup..........I think.