wastegate actuator relocation for TII FB.
04-26-09, 08:20 PM
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wastegate actuator relocation for TII FB.
Good day all,
Finally when to drop in the TII(s4) motor and the wastegate actuator is hitting the car right behind the motor mount. I did read anywhere in here about moving it to a different location. So what i have done is moved it to the back by the downpipe and trying to get rig something to pull the wastegate arm to open.
we found this out after the cherry picker stop working.
. the motor is being lifted by man and will. pls help and the picker is down and my engine lift options(my friends) are not going to lift and hold but only so often.
Finally when to drop in the TII(s4) motor and the wastegate actuator is hitting the car right behind the motor mount. I did read anywhere in here about moving it to a different location. So what i have done is moved it to the back by the downpipe and trying to get rig something to pull the wastegate arm to open.
we found this out after the cherry picker stop working.
. the motor is being lifted by man and will. pls help and the picker is down and my engine lift options(my friends) are not going to lift and hold but only so often.
04-27-09, 01:56 PM
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Wastegate Actuator Valve relocation issue.
Good day all,
Finally when to drop in the TII(s4) motor and the wastegate actuator is hitting the car right behind the motor mount. I did read anywhere in here about moving it to a different location. So what i have done is moved it to the back by the downpipe and trying to get rig something to pull the wastegate arm to open.
we found this out after the cherry picker stop working.. the motor is being lifted by man and will. pls help and the picker is down and my engine lift options(my friends) are not going to lift and hold but only so often.
Finally when to drop in the TII(s4) motor and the wastegate actuator is hitting the car right behind the motor mount. I did read anywhere in here about moving it to a different location. So what i have done is moved it to the back by the downpipe and trying to get rig something to pull the wastegate arm to open.
we found this out after the cherry picker stop working.
. the motor is being lifted by man and will. pls help and the picker is down and my engine lift options(my friends) are not going to lift and hold but only so often.Okay let me clean this up a bit. I attempted to drop my S4 TII motor into my 84 GSLSE and the Wastegate Actuator Valve was mdking contact behind the engine mount. We were trying to drop the motor in by lifting it manually rather than by cherry picker. well i got the cherry picker working by adding hydro fluid. it looks like it would fit but not sure. i believe the power steering pump was in the way before, causing the motor to go in lap-sided. I have not read anywhere on here about this being a issue. Now i have alter the vaccum line and think i will be needing another one.
04-27-09, 09:56 PM
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Yes sir.removed the side/middle mounts and plug the holes. on my way out there now to attempt to get it right. I have a engine lift to make it a ton easier.
Last edited by OriGiNaL TyPe R; 04-27-09 at 09:59 PM. Reason: didnt clearly respond to question.
05-01-09, 04:29 PM
#7
I'm not familiar with type of actuator. If you could get another pic just a little further back, that would be great. I am running a HTO4E with an internal wastegate, and mine is close to the frame, but not like that. This is the only pic I could find of my setup right now. If you need one better, I can see what I can do.
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05-01-09, 11:05 PM
#8
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more pix.
I'm not familiar with type of actuator. If you could get another pic just a little further back, that would be great. I am running a HTO4E with an internal wastegate, and mine is close to the frame, but not like that. This is the only pic I could find of my setup right now. If you need one better, I can see what I can do.
On the verge of pulling out my hair...on the final l stretch then crap..and to think i thought the hardest thing was the wiring
..bad 83 if i could get a pix more from the front. It looks like your intake and A/F meter might be in the way though.1.)pix shows the WAV in the way.
2.)pix shows without WAV.
3.)pix shows motor in the air with the WAV on it.
4.)pix shows motor in the the car again different angle.
Last edited by OriGiNaL TyPe R; 05-01-09 at 11:11 PM. Reason: lable pix.
05-02-09, 10:13 AM
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Question if i use the TII motor mount on the passenger side (as the drivers side motor mount[gslse] seems to be about bigger, will it be a issue with lining up correctly. I think it will still be a issue with clearence though. Now on the back side by the downpipe there are two holes perfect aligment like the front for the WAV to plug into. I was thinking about putting it there and fab'n something to open the wastegate. As we know the vaccum open and the arm is pulled to open the wastegate, with me placing the WAV to the rear i will have to create some sort of Pull-n-Pull mech. at work right now but will draw a sample of what im talking about for people to have a idea of what i'm talking about.
05-02-09, 11:46 AM
#10
i dont think thats for the wastegate,i think its for something else.what i usually do is take it off and throw that in the trash.i normally take the turbo off,then the manifold off,and cut the lil flapper that goes to the turbo manifold and weld the hole shut.it makes the turbo spool up better.the wastegate actuator is above the one that is your problem.look around and ask around to see what else people have done to keep that on the car.
05-02-09, 01:56 PM
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i dont think thats for the wastegate,i think its for something else.what i usually do is take it off and throw that in the trash.i normally take the turbo off,then the manifold off,and cut the lil flapper that goes to the turbo manifold and weld the hole shut.it makes the turbo spool up better.the wastegate actuator is above the one that is your problem.look around and ask around to see what else people have done to keep that on the car.
I have checked on it and thought it was the WAV, I will check again but as you can see I have recieved a little feedback on this topic. This is why I am reaching out to those who i believe can/will offer proven guidance.
05-02-09, 10:13 PM
#12
That is the twin scroll actuator, not the wastegate. You would be best advised to ditch that. All you need to do is remove the manifold to get rid of that. It will leave a hole in the mani, but I could weld that up for you 
Give me a PM, and I can hook you up.
Give me a PM, and I can hook you up.
05-02-09, 10:40 PM
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[Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarydave2006
i dont think thats for the wastegate,i think its for something else.what i usually do is take it off and throw that in the trash.i normally take the turbo off,then the manifold off,and cut the lil flapper that goes to the turbo manifold and weld the hole shut.it makes the turbo spool up better.the wastegate actuator is above the one that is your problem.look around and ask around to see what else people have done to keep that on the car.[/QUOTE]
I have checked on it and thought it was the WAV, I will check again but as you can see I have recieved a little feedback on this topic. This is why I am reaching out to those who i believe can/will offer proven guidance.
Please forgive me for the ignorance..my first time really getting my hands dirty(doing all the work myself). I really did think the part was the wastegate actuator valve but its the switching actuator. thank you bad 83 and rotarydave2006.
bad 83 pm'd you.
Originally Posted by rotarydave2006
i dont think thats for the wastegate,i think its for something else.what i usually do is take it off and throw that in the trash.i normally take the turbo off,then the manifold off,and cut the lil flapper that goes to the turbo manifold and weld the hole shut.it makes the turbo spool up better.the wastegate actuator is above the one that is your problem.look around and ask around to see what else people have done to keep that on the car.[/QUOTE]
I have checked on it and thought it was the WAV, I will check again but as you can see I have recieved a little feedback on this topic. This is why I am reaching out to those who i believe can/will offer proven guidance.
bad 83 pm'd you.
05-03-09, 08:11 AM
#14
Hey. Don't feel bad. It's all about learning. Contrary to popular belief, the twin scroll is there to help the turbo spool up quicker on the bottom end. Reason being, the turbo has a devided hot side. On the lower rpm hits, it forces all the exhaust pressure through one side of the turbo causing it spool faster. But just for arguement sake, you do not "need" it.
05-03-09, 03:17 PM
#15
What you have there is the twin scroll actuator. The best way to solve the problem is to get a series 5 turbo and manifold (also need the oil drain line pieces), one that was actually designed without this actuator. Pic from an '87 Mazda brochure:
For the series 4 turbo, under low speed (2700 rpm?) the flapper is shut for faster spool and under higher speed the flapper opens. Without that system working correctly you are losing the response that Mazda designed.
The series 5 turbo ("Kouki") and manifold have two independent passage in the exhaust manifold that mate up to two equally sized passageways in the turbine housing, fully separating the exhaust from each rotor until it hits the turbine blades. This system is simpler and more reliable than the series 4 system. The compressor and turbine wheel sizes are the same in both series.
With an open exhaust, boost creep is a serious problem on these FC stock turbos! The other advantage of the series 5 turbo is the larger, dual passage wastegate. The series 4 turbo only bleeds exhaust off one of the inlet ports, an inferior design common on twin scroll diesel turbos where boost control isn't much of an issue (Holset HX35W on the Dodge Ram). Series 4:
The series 5 turbo has twin wastegate passages.
You NEED TO PORT THE WASTEGATE. THIS IS NOT AN OPTION!!!!!!!!! search "boost creep" under 2nd and 3rd generation sections and you will probably have a multitude of horror stories. FD stock twins boost creep too.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOWTO/KWG/kwg.html s5 wastegate porting writeup
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/s4wastegate.htm s4 wastegate porting writeup
I ported my s5 wastegate to the limit of the stock flapper and I still had some noticeable creep in cold weather.
Again, you really should buy an s5 turbo and port the wastegate. It's the best solution to this whole situation. You'll thank me later.
For the series 4 turbo, under low speed (2700 rpm?) the flapper is shut for faster spool and under higher speed the flapper opens. Without that system working correctly you are losing the response that Mazda designed.
The series 5 turbo ("Kouki") and manifold have two independent passage in the exhaust manifold that mate up to two equally sized passageways in the turbine housing, fully separating the exhaust from each rotor until it hits the turbine blades. This system is simpler and more reliable than the series 4 system. The compressor and turbine wheel sizes are the same in both series.
With an open exhaust, boost creep is a serious problem on these FC stock turbos! The other advantage of the series 5 turbo is the larger, dual passage wastegate. The series 4 turbo only bleeds exhaust off one of the inlet ports, an inferior design common on twin scroll diesel turbos where boost control isn't much of an issue (Holset HX35W on the Dodge Ram). Series 4:
The series 5 turbo has twin wastegate passages.
You NEED TO PORT THE WASTEGATE. THIS IS NOT AN OPTION!!!!!!!!! search "boost creep" under 2nd and 3rd generation sections and you will probably have a multitude of horror stories. FD stock twins boost creep too.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOWTO/KWG/kwg.html s5 wastegate porting writeup
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/s4wastegate.htm s4 wastegate porting writeup
I ported my s5 wastegate to the limit of the stock flapper and I still had some noticeable creep in cold weather.
Again, you really should buy an s5 turbo and port the wastegate. It's the best solution to this whole situation. You'll thank me later.
05-04-09, 02:58 PM
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What you have there is the twin scroll actuator. The best way to solve the problem is to get a series 5 turbo and manifold (also need the oil drain line pieces), one that was actually designed without this actuator. Pic from an '87 Mazda brochure:
For the series 4 turbo, under low speed (2700 rpm?) the flapper is shut for faster spool and under higher speed the flapper opens. Without that system working correctly you are losing the response that Mazda designed.
The series 5 turbo ("Kouki") and manifold have two independent passage in the exhaust manifold that mate up to two equally sized passageways in the turbine housing, fully separating the exhaust from each rotor until it hits the turbine blades. This system is simpler and more reliable than the series 4 system. The compressor and turbine wheel sizes are the same in both series.
With an open exhaust, boost creep is a serious problem on these FC stock turbos! The other advantage of the series 5 turbo is the larger, dual passage wastegate. The series 4 turbo only bleeds exhaust off one of the inlet ports, an inferior design common on twin scroll diesel turbos where boost control isn't much of an issue (Holset HX35W on the Dodge Ram). Series 4:
The series 5 turbo has twin wastegate passages.
You NEED TO PORT THE WASTEGATE. THIS IS NOT AN OPTION!!!!!!!!! search "boost creep" under 2nd and 3rd generation sections and you will probably have a multitude of horror stories. FD stock twins boost creep too.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOWTO/KWG/kwg.html s5 wastegate porting writeup
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/s4wastegate.htm s4 wastegate porting writeup
I ported my s5 wastegate to the limit of the stock flapper and I still had some noticeable creep in cold weather.
Again, you really should buy an s5 turbo and port the wastegate. It's the best solution to this whole situation. You'll thank me later.
For the series 4 turbo, under low speed (2700 rpm?) the flapper is shut for faster spool and under higher speed the flapper opens. Without that system working correctly you are losing the response that Mazda designed.
The series 5 turbo ("Kouki") and manifold have two independent passage in the exhaust manifold that mate up to two equally sized passageways in the turbine housing, fully separating the exhaust from each rotor until it hits the turbine blades. This system is simpler and more reliable than the series 4 system. The compressor and turbine wheel sizes are the same in both series.
With an open exhaust, boost creep is a serious problem on these FC stock turbos! The other advantage of the series 5 turbo is the larger, dual passage wastegate. The series 4 turbo only bleeds exhaust off one of the inlet ports, an inferior design common on twin scroll diesel turbos where boost control isn't much of an issue (Holset HX35W on the Dodge Ram). Series 4:
The series 5 turbo has twin wastegate passages.
You NEED TO PORT THE WASTEGATE. THIS IS NOT AN OPTION!!!!!!!!! search "boost creep" under 2nd and 3rd generation sections and you will probably have a multitude of horror stories. FD stock twins boost creep too.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOWTO/KWG/kwg.html s5 wastegate porting writeup
http://www.aaroncake.net/rx-7/s4wastegate.htm s4 wastegate porting writeup
I ported my s5 wastegate to the limit of the stock flapper and I still had some noticeable creep in cold weather.
Again, you really should buy an s5 turbo and port the wastegate. It's the best solution to this whole situation. You'll thank me later.
Yes...YES....yeh.. thanks for the information. i had planned on getting a S5 turbo to get rid of the boost creep and have a more reliable set up, but the funds are low right now.
05-04-09, 04:26 PM
#17
The S4 turbo can be ported way more than the S5. I actaully prefer using the S4 hot side on my hybrids because of the ability to port so much.
Here's a good comparison of the tiny factory port, and a 40mm port.
Stock Port
40mm Port
If you look closely, you can see how much of the wall that is taken out. Notice the much larger flap.
Ummm. Yummy..............
Here's a good comparison of the tiny factory port, and a 40mm port.
Stock Port
40mm Port
If you look closely, you can see how much of the wall that is taken out. Notice the much larger flap.
Ummm. Yummy..............
05-07-09, 12:11 PM
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/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet gooonneeeyyyy goooogoooo. that motor looks so good. i didnt forget about you man. bad 83, that is a sweet a$$ motor man.
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet gooonneeeyyyy goooogoooo. that motor looks so good. i didnt forget about you man. bad 83, that is a sweet a$$ motor man.
Last edited by OriGiNaL TyPe R; 05-07-09 at 12:12 PM. Reason: gramma error
05-07-09, 02:58 PM
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OHhh yea
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I would keep the twin scroll actuator when It works you spool alot faster. I noticed a big difference on my 84se with the 87 t2 setup. I have a different mount that angles it towards the frame rail. It works but it is not Ideal. I have thought about somehow flipping the arm on the manifold and mounting it behind the turbo somehow. There is tons of room back there! I also ditched the metal 180 vacuum tube which makes it a little easier to mount the actuator.
05-11-09, 10:57 AM
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I would keep the twin scroll actuator when It works you spool alot faster. I noticed a big difference on my 84se with the 87 t2 setup. I have a different mount that angles it towards the frame rail. It works but it is not Ideal. I have thought about somehow flipping the arm on the manifold and mounting it behind the turbo somehow. There is tons of room back there! I also ditched the metal 180 vacuum tube which makes it a little easier to mount the actuator.
. Got everything done, but the car will not turn over it just cranks. Got fire, fuel coming up the line, triple checked the timing( 2nd mark on pulley with cas indent on point). going to check my fuel pump resistor relay, circuit opening relay and fuel pump wiring. My fuel pump resistor relay is getting hot. I can hear hissing in the intake manny on the left side in addition to that the port air is not connected. The car is not flooding( checked the plugs) so i am thinking the fuel injectors are not working. Going to search to see how to test those.aaaaaaahhhhh this project is driving me up the wall
05-25-09, 12:20 PM
#21
OHhh yea
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the biggest problems i had was with vacuum leaks. Those are extremely hard to find if you don't know what you are looking for. I would recommend replacing all your existing lines with fresh ones. I went with silicon cause I think they hold up a little better than rubber ones. Take a good look at a color diagram so you know what goes where. Plus if you got some paint pens you can mark the ends of the hoses and pipes so if something gets disconnected you know where it goes again.
color diagram:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...vacuum+diagram
color diagram:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...vacuum+diagram
05-26-09, 07:16 PM
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the biggest problems i had was with vacuum leaks. Those are extremely hard to find if you don't know what you are looking for. I would recommend replacing all your existing lines with fresh ones. I went with silicon cause I think they hold up a little better than rubber ones. Take a good look at a color diagram so you know what goes where. Plus if you got some paint pens you can mark the ends of the hoses and pipes so if something gets disconnected you know where it goes again.
color diagram:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...vacuum+diagram
color diagram:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...vacuum+diagram
12-27-10, 02:40 PM
#23
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what i did to fix this was...cut the top part of the actuator and connected a manual choke cable....with this i was opening and closing the scroll.
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