arghx

iTrader: (3)

You clearly have no idea how any of this works and haven't comprehended anything I've posted, either in this thread or in the other thread I linked to. What you said makes no sense, and I can tell you don't know how vacuum and pressure are used on any of these actuators.

Verneuil

Wooo, No need to get mad. Ive both read what you have posted. How do you know what i do or do not know. You have no idea what Ive done, Where ive been or what i do. I maybe young but ive been able to do more things than anyone could know. I know what ur talking about. And Ill post some pics to show this.

Unevolved

iTrader: (1)

Just promise me this isn't your DD.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

of course they are, that's how normal wastegates work. The twins happen to have two ports on the actuator but they still work off pressure.

Again, there shouldn't be. The precontrol actuator is just like a regular old wastegate actuator. The precontrol and wastegate actuators do have two ports on them, but they still work like almost every other internal wastegate out there. The second port on these two actuators goes to the factory boost control solenoids (precontrol and wastegate solenoids). Those solenoids are controlled by a duty signal to bleed pressure out of the actuator. Manifold vacuum is not used at all. You can cap off one of the ports on each and use a different style of boost control if you want to.

Don't get the turbo control and precontrol confused. They work in completely different ways. The precontrol uses a duty signal like any other wastegate to bleed pressure out of the actuator. In factory form it has one solenoid and two ports on the actuator. The duty cycle is feedback controlled like any closed loop electronic boost control system. The turbo control actuator uses pressure on one side and vacuum on the other to open the turbo control valve quickly, through two different solenoids. The turbo control is not duty controlled. The solenoids are either ON (supplying vacuum or pressure) or OFF, and they are wired in parallel and switched off the same pin from the factory computer. The control logic is open loop based on rpm, throttle position, and hysteresis (meaning the switchpoint depends on whether you are accelerating or decelerating). The turbo control is switched at the same time as the charge control.



The turbo control is built into the turbos and exhaust manifold... it's rarely removed. The precontrol and the turbo control are two different actuators and they work differently. the precontrol looks and functions like a wastegate actuator. It's used for boost control when only the primary turbo is operating. It always comes online before the turbo control actuator, as it is used to prespool the secondary turbo before the secondary is ready to come fully online. When the secondary turbo is ready to come fully online, the precontrol is held fully open (precontrol solenoid is almost at 100% duty) while the turbo control solenoids are switched ON to open the turbo control valve. At the same time the charge control valve and charge relief valved are switched OFF so that the charge air from the secondary turbo can flow into the engine. At this point the wastegate valve begins to open and the wastegate duty solenoid (or manual boost controller, or whatever) is used to control boost.

I'd have to see a picture of this T you are referring to. This guy may have run a single external electronic boost controller and used a T so it could be used on both the precontrol and wastegate.



the Y pipe contains the charge control valve and also has a port for the charge relief valve and factory air bypass valve (blowoff). The twins have a proprietary downpipe flange so you will have to get a downpipe meant for an FD (the factory USDM precat always clogs) and then modify it to fit.

Verneuil

They guy had removed the turbo contol, It was one of the first things i had noticed was missing. They guy i bought them from has the y-pipe the turbo contol and a down pipe for me. We just gotta meet up againe, Possibly this weekend. The only thing i can see that i would need to do to make this work is the turbo control. Ur idea is awsome, But is it fezzable. I can see using a external ecu to run the selenoids, Plus would I have to do some programing to make it run them correctly. Ill look into it. That website you linked is awsome, Holloween nuematics awsome.

Verneuil

http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/u...l/eda4a183.jpg

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I can't see any of the actuators on there in that pic. Here's some pics (they don't show everything):




There are also oil and coolant lines you are going to need. This guy gave you basically nothing. And what engine is this supposed to go on? you're not seriously trying to do this with a carb are you...

arghx

iTrader: (3)

pic of the Y pipe (factory BOV port has been plugged):



turbo control actuator:



exhaust manifold

Verneuil

He gave me everything but the y pipe and the actuator. I had taken the oil lines and coolant lines off. Ive also got the manifold. And yes I am doing this with a carb. Its gonna go on my 12A, Im getting the carb boost prepped. Still need to get a rising rate fuel regulator higher pressure pump intercooler and piping and still need to get the oil supply figured out and lock the dizzy. If thought this threw and know what i need. This was the Biggest thing to get and now i got it.

Verneuil

Ill get more pics tonight of the acctuators and the rest of everything.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I guess there is no way of talking you out of the carb, so I'm not going to bother. I wouldn't trust a carb for higher boost and pump gas because there is no electronic spark advance to adjust timing. You may want to skip running boost controllers altogether then. The simplest thing is to run at the 7-8psi of the factory wastegate/precontrol by connecting the pressure sources off the compressor outlet directly to the actuators with no boost controller or restricter. There is a chance you will have to port the wastegate to hold this boost.

You may be able to get away with just one rpm activated switch and some relays to control everything. Here's an el cheapo: http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p...ue_Shift_Light or you can go MSD. I've used the MSD ones but I'm not sure if they are really any better than the cheap one.



That's the factory FD control logic for very low throttle. At high throttle the transition point is 4000rpm. So at 4000rpm (you could still adjust the rpm it later) you will need to switch your charge control, charge relief, the two turbo control solenoids, and you will want to begin opening the wastegate. Technically the charge relief solenoid isn't supposed to come online until at least 2000 rpm (which would require a window switch), but I don't think it matters that much. So here is one idea:



Under 4000rpm:

-- Charge control actuator receives vacuum from vac chamber
-- Charge relief receives vacuum from vac chamber (valve opened)
-- Turbo control actuator (pressure side) is vented
-- Turbo control actuator (vacuum side) is vented
-- Wastegate is vented (held shut to improve spool), 2nd port on actuator capped
-- Pre control valve is connected directly to the compressor outlet to control boost via spring pressure, 2nd port on actuator capped

Over 4000rpm:

-- Charge control actuator receives pressure from compressor outlet
-- Charge relief valve vented (valve closed)
-- Turbo control actuator (pressure side) receives pressure from chamber
-- Turbo control actuator (vacuum side) receives vacuum from chamber
-- Wastegate receives compressor outlet pressure in order to control boost. An MBC or EBC could be installed in-line, but higher boost levels could be dangerous
-- Pre control continues to receive compressor outlet pressure and is thus held in the full open position.

I have no idea how the boost pattern would be on a carb'd 12A turbo. No clue. And I've never actually tried that exact plumbing personally, but on paper it should work.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Now if you really want to make it clean, use matching harness plugs for the solenoids (the solenoids are flying lead, they do not come with connectors). These are the factory plugs for the FD boost control solenoids (Tyco Econoseal II plug and receptacle):


http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...oducts_id/1673


http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...oducts_id/1674

Buy 5 of each. It'd be clean looking and a lot easier than a bunch of hard wired solenoids. You could also use GM/Delphi pigtails if you wanted to, they're a little cheaper.

Verneuil

Id like to go Fuel injected but thats much more involved than this. And Ur new idea is sooo much simpler. Lol. The only piece of this that i have so far is the turbos. I still need to modify them to work with my motor. Get the FPR, Intercooler, Carb hat, Fuel pump and get my spare carb prepped for boost. I think the car will run good with the carb. And once this is done itll be amazing. Now im probly gonna go put up some wanted ads in the 3rd gen forum for the vac and boost chambers and the one way valvs for them. Arghx, Thanks for all ur input. You seemed to have lost it a little bit ago.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

Your incorrect use of terminology (confusing the precontrol and the turbo control, which are different in many ways) indicated to me at the time that you hadn't bothered to learn how the system works-i.e. you hadn't done your homework. And you can't do something this complicated if you haven't memorized exactly how the system works down to every little detail.

Sorry if I was a little harsh/over reacting, but there are so many dreamers who are like "wouldn't it be sweet if I had twin turbo!!!11!!" and won't spend the time to gain the knowledge necessary to attempt such a thing.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

when you get the downpipe, put the turbos on the manifold, and put the downpipe on and measure it.

then measure the car.

the twins won't fit with any stock intake manifolds except the FD and cosmo.

and you can't run a spacer, because the idler arm is in the way anyways

Verneuil

You should be happy, I ordered the RPM Switch. Idk about paying 25 bucks for those selenoids. Ill do that if its absolulty neccasary

Verneuil

You are right about me misusing the correct terminology, It dosnt matter if i havnt mezmorized how this system works. I can make this work the way i need it too for what i want if need be. Yes ur right in that i should know how this system works so that i know what i need to do to make it work perfectly. Yes i am a dreamer. I had a 2008 Ford Mustang before my FB. Does that show you im a dreamer? I had over 3 grand in mods. And now shes gone. I had huge dreams when i had her, Ive had huge dreams for every vehicle that ive had. The Stang was the closest that ive been to having everything that i wanted. But shes no more. Now i have dreams for the FB, Id like to pioneer this twin turbo setup if its possible. So far im the only one to post about doing a twin FB. So that takes me a step ahead of everyone else. I put words into Action.


Thats exactly what im going to do.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

uh oh, here we go... And there I was in my last post apologizing for treating you like a lazy ***/cheap ***. $3k isn't jack man.

Do you know how much new stock ones are? They're $60+ each. And used ones ALWAYS FAIL. ALWAYS. 100% guaranteed that at least one will cause you problems at some point and make you go nuts. They're not easy to troubleshoot either, as bench testing will not always show the problem.

Verneuil

Woo, Woo, Woo. I am not being cheap and or a lazy ***. Just trying to see if there is a alternative to those. Considering there very over kill for that application that i would be using them for. If there the only ones out there in the world or the cheapest fine ill get them. But till then im going to find out if there is something that is similar that does the same thing for less. Well quess I am going cheap. But spending over a hundred dollars for theses. Ill see if theres something else. And agiane if i have to get these i will.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

If you think those are overkill you clearly have never messed with FD sequential twins. That kind of attitude will doom this project to failure. People are spending a lot more time and trouble than that to make the sequential turbos reliable. There's nothing overpriced or overkill about a $26 solenoid. People will spend $150 to replace aftermarket boost control solenoids (Denso/Greddy) that are basically the exact same as what I posted.

There is one other alternative. Acquire a set of the Rob Baily aka "saxyman" solenoids. He did a set of aftermarket solenoids in the OEM style, but they are no longer available and people are still trying to figure out exactly which parts he bought.

Unevolved

iTrader: (1)

OP, I just sold a set of Cosmo twins and still have the Y-pipe and a solenoid or two laying around my shop if you're looking for any of those.

Verneuil

Alright then. Just to let you know also im not gonna use the factory "blow off valve" Im gonna use a after market style. Alright so ill do some research on the solenoids. And you are right im sure ppl spend **** tons of money at parts to make the Sequenls work good. But im not wanting to make these things push 300 Hp from a 12A. If i can get 50 or 70 cool. But I will most likely be using what you have posted. If anything i can use stock FD ones and slowly switch them out. Im not trying to break to much bank all at once. But then againe this is gonna take me a while to do, So what the hell ill buy one or two a pay check. And slowly start getting this off the ground.

If anything the Solenoids would help as a back up or to experiment with. I could use them to help out in other areas. Hot much do you want for them?

Verneuil

I got updated pics. You can use the link from earlyer. There is a second nipple on the wastegate. I did not see that before.

Unevolved

iTrader: (1)

I don't know, make me an offer. I'll try to remember to stop by my shop and take some pictures after work tomorrow.

Verneuil

Umm wow i have no idea. How many?