Twin Turbo FB?
 

SO im thinking of getting the twin turbo setup from the Third gens for like 200 bucks. I was looking at how they operate, But it seems a little complicated. Just wondering if this is feesible becouse id really like to pioneer this. Thanks

Might be easier to get a whole FD motor and swap it in. Most FD guys ditch the twin for a single because its a better solution and less maintenance.

Easiest way is going to be a stock-for-stock swap, using a S4 TII transmission, GSL-SE front cover, and stock ECU.

generally the FD turbos are snugged up so close to the block you need to run an FD or cosmo lower intake. there is not much room to space it out, due to the idler arm either.

Hmmmm, Well i may still pick it up and see what i can do. Be really sweet to do this. Guys wantin to let it go for 150. Im taking a look at it tommorow and see what kind of condition it is in.

If you are going to attemp this, be warned the twin turbo downpipe will not clear the FB chassis without some major modding.

He's letting it go for cheap because FD twins suck. Don't do it, go single. I got my t04E for like 350 bucks, none of the FD twin problems (there are many).

They guy has a single turbo. IDK how much its HUGE though. AR70 with 1.00 Exhoust. Ill c what i can possibly do. I think twin in a FB would be sweet. Ill update you on this.

I had a 13B-RE I was planning on putting in my FB, but I sold the entire swap. Just wasn't worth it.

FWIW, you can have the twins modified to run non-sequentially, i.e. like a normal, single turbo. It's not cheap, but it is possible. If you're going to do it, it'll greatly simplify your EMS process as you can run a conventional standalone. IIRC, Haltech is the only one that makes an ECU that can handle the sequential turbos.

yes twins in an FB would be sweet but only to be different. There is nothing they can do a well sized single can't.
And, while twins ARE cool, the big convoluted fat ass set up that is the stock FD twins, with its 40 some vacuum lines and infinite break-ability is not.

That dudes turbo sounds like a 60-1, basically 1 step up from what i have. It's medium sized and a standard 400hp rx7 turbo.

Hmm, He sent some pics of the AR70 and there was a aresol can next to it and the dam turbo Dwarfed that can. I was looking and the vacume diagram for the turbos ya there is a bunch of lines. But i think if i run them seqential but manuely that would be less of a hassle. Im still thinking of this. And im not gonna go FI, Way to much much work to make it fuel injected.

if you have to ask...

How are you going to "manually" run sequential? And you think fuel injection is alot of work, but the twins are easy, fun time? :lol:

Looking at the vacum diagram theres a flapper valve inside that blocks exhoust flow to second turbo, i could wire up a electric vacum selenoide to trigger that flapper. Then run two manuel boost controllers to run each waste gate. Least thats what ive thought so far

So good news, i picked up the twin setup. Couple parts missing. But theys got them so just gotta meet up to get them. He pulled them off with about 40000 miles on them. No cracks anywhere on these babys. Ill get picks up soon

You want both wastegates to open at the same prescribed boost level, so you only need one boost controller. Just "T" the lines together.

If you use an electric solenoid to trigger the flapper valve:
1. What signal will you use to control the solenoid?
2. Where will you mount the solenoid? It's very hot near the turbo, and solenoids don't like extreme heat.

Just run them non-sequential. I hope this is not your DD.

can't do it like that, the boost from the first turbo will just spin the second turbo backwards.....

arghx has an excellent post in the 3rd gen section explaining how the turbos work, they actually aren't that bad

Ill use the stock seloinode that is on there. Dont they run different boost? Ill just use a toggle switch to run it.

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/why-engine-so-damn-complicated-part-1-sequential-turbos-demystified-841821/

this thread uses Mazda internal documentation to explain what every single actuator and solenoid does and how they work (using either vacuum or pressure). Read through it before you make assumptions.

Wow that really helps me out. Though i still think i can do this manually. It may be hard but i think it can be done. Ill do some more research to figure out how to do this myself. Thank you for posting up that post.

Here's what you need. Here's the essence of the sequential system:

-- two 3-way solenoids that are plumbed to switch between vacuum and boost. That's for charge control and charge relief. One port (inlet side) goes to vacuum, one port (inlet side) goes to boost, your third port is your output. So when the solenoid is turned on, the solenoid will switch from feeding vacuum to pressure or vice versa.

-- two 3-way solenoids that only actually use two ports. One switches vacuum and one switches pressure, while the third is open vented. That's for the turbo control actuator.

For the turbo control vacuum solenoid on the inlet side you have vacuum, and then that is connected to an outlet. The third port is open vented or a filter can be installed. For the turbo control pressure solenoid on the inlet side you have pressure, and then that is connected to an outlet. The third port is open vented or a filter can be installed.

You can use OEM solenoids but you will have to buy them brand new, as you are really rolling the dice with used ones. The solenoids aren't that different from FB or FC emissions solenoids. A 3 port solenoid is a 3 port solenoid.

-- a pressure chamber and a vacuum chamber, just get OEM ones

-- two check valves, preferably aftermarket viton ones (do a search in the 3rd gen section). one check valve maintains pressure in the pressure chamber, one check valve maintains vacuum in the vacuum chamber

-- a way to control boost for the precontrol and the wastegate. Methods include:

1. two manual boost controllers
2. one external electronic boost controller controlling both (I don't like this)
3. two independent electronic boost control solenoids (a factory-style setup) plugged into the main engine harness and controlled through a standalone ECU

The charge control and turbo control solenoids can all be switched at 4000rpm. The factory logic is a little more elegant than that (taking into account deceleration and throttle position) but that will work. The charge control should be turned OFF (it is ON by default) while the turbo control solenoids should be turned ON at this rpm (it is OFF by default). You could use an rpm switch if you want to. The charge relief valve and solenoid will require a window switch like you would use for nitrous control, most likely from 2500-4000rpm.

Boost control is boost control. You can hook it up like factory with a solenoid bleeding pressure from the actuators, you can use MBC's I've mentioned, you can use 3 port solenoid type EBC's (like a Greddy EBC) to interrupt the pressure signal to the actuator, or you can use a stepper-type EBC like an HKS EVC. There are a lot of options here.

That's if you want to do it custom, assuming you can get everything to fit.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1243186262

The absolute easiest no bullshit way to do it is to wire up a standalone with its own harness (Haltech, AEM EMS universal, whatever). Switch the charge control, charge relief, and turbo control with the EMS you have and then you won't need external rpm switches. Many have trouble with ECU-based boost control, but if you know what you are doing you can definitely make it work. Otherwise use one of the boost control options I've suggested above.

It's not THAT complicated, but you have to have significant experience with wiring and vacuum routing. It's an absolute bare minimum of 4 solenoids, pressure and vac chamber, and two check valves (assuming two manual boost controllers). You could actually use 6 of these ($26.50 each) solenoids to control every single actuator in the system including boost control:

http://www.frightprops.com/FrightPro...ID=A-0013-0082

http://www.frightprops.com/frightpro...YOPERATION.jpg

pictured there is the configuration you would use for the two turbo control solenoids. Then you would have to move the fittings around on the solenoids use them for charge control, charge relief, precontrol, and wastegate.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.p...1&d=1274119867

factory solenoids, picture taken out of the FD service manual. there are actually two turbo control solenoids. There are also factory wastegate and pre control solenoids for boost control. Those look a little different (only have two ports) and are not pictured here.

Wow, great information and more than I would want to have to mess with.

I would suggest you sell the twins for whatever you can get, get a HKS or other quality T04 manifold and wastegate, and a T04E. I bought my real HKS manifold and wastegate used on ebay for $275. T04s are a dime a dozen.

I see what you are saying but im gonna throw a wrench in there. The setup that i got the wastgate and the turbo precontrol are just run off boost. There is no other nipple on the Turbo precontrole to run vaccum. It does have a T fitting coming off boost side that look like it runs down to the turbo control. I do not have the Turbo Contole doo hiky yet. The guy i got the setup from thought i had a 3rd gen, And i didnt say that i had a first. So i gotta meet up with him and get that and the Y-Pipe and down pipe. Ill take pics later of that