Turbo first gen, 250 whp ,and knowledge so far
11-10-03, 11:44 PM
#1
Turbo first gen, 250 whp ,and knowledge so far
Okay, I decieded to start a new thread about my setup and maybe help others about what to do.
THE CAR-
1985 GS(L-SE) converted from the GS suspension to GSL-SE, and changed over to a 5-speed ,power steering, racing beat front sway bar, 18mm rear sway bar, GTO widebody kit, I changed from the 4:10 to a 4:88, and now I'm back to a 3:909 from a GSL. I have 15x10 rear and 15x8 front R compound tires. Many strut braces. Kyb shocks, and racing beat springs. Handles power very well, I think it wants more
THE MOTOR-
89-91 13b trubo motor, that I rebuilt and ported, has stock 2mm apex seals, soild corner seals, dynamic balance, race bearings, 3rd gen stationary's, 3rd gen corner seal springs, 85 psi oil reg, brand new housings.
It's a little beast!
THE DRIVE TRAIN-
Turbo II j-spec 5-speed , HAS VERY SHORT GEARING
anyone else be warned, j-spec tranny's (at least the one I got) are geared different. I have all the ratio's figured out, 5th gear is .90:1.00 4th gear is 1.19:100, 3rd is 1.579, 2nd is 2.114, 1st is 3.90 !!! Top speed is 153.7 with a 3.909 rear-end and tires with a 6.75 foot roll-out. (275/50-15-nitto 555R) Good thing is I now can go 65 mph in 2nd @7000rpm YEAH!!
RPS kevlar ceramic 6-puck clutch, 10 lb steel flywheel
THE MODS-
STOCK 89-91 brand new factory turbocharger non-ported.
Full 3" racing beat downpipe, custom 3" exhaust with 3" straight through pre-silencers, and a 3"5-zigen muffler
Wlabro 255 Hp in-line fuel pump. stock 550cc primary injectors, 680cc GSL-se secondary injectors (all were cleaned and balanced by RC engineering)
HKS fuel cut defensor ( set at level 1, and any other level causes boost cut, factory recommends 2, but that didnt work for me, and yet it is wired perfectly)
Used Jet ecu, not sure what was done exactly, just know it was re-mapped for more boost and ignition timming redone.
large front mount intercooler, 33"x 7"x3.5" , piping from turbo is all 2" to intercooler, then goes 2.5 through intercooler, and stays 2.5" on the other side to a home made throttle body mount/pipe.
Of course motor is street ported, and I'm running a Home Depot boost controller (t-pin type inside cabin)
turbo inlet duct made from 3" pipe, almost a straight shot, and a KN air filter. SX rising rate fuel pressure regulator. Greddy boost gauge
Whew, okay now my two cents;
I have removed the following items with no side effects;
the boost controller, all three soleniods, air control valve, bac valve, and the AWS. I'm running pre-mix , with the OMP on the side firewall
I DO NOT GET BOOST CREEP! I was told by everyone it seems that I was going to creep, but no, I wish I could but I cant. I recently turned the boost all the way up, wastegate totally closed, and can get 17 psi up to 5k, and then my boost dies off to 10psi @6000 and 7.5psi by 7000rpm. The stock boost controller did a good job, but it only let 8.5 psi go by.
I then went to a manual controller, got up to 14 psi max.
Then I went to a TID with 3"piping, hoping for more, but no still 14 psi, dropping to 7.5 @7000
Okay, so I then re-routed the setup, took off the steel rack on the turbo and ran the turbo outlet vac line directly to the controller, and from the controller to the wastegate.
Now I can get 17 psi, for only a breif time, and still goes to 7.5 by 7000rpm, which is with the wastegate closed
Oh yeah the numbers- at 9.5 psi the G-tech says 190 Hp to the wheels
@14 psi I was getting into 215 to the wheels
tonight, @ 16-17 psi I hit 252 HP to the wheels!!
But that number is around 5500-6000, at 7k it closer 200 whp
I'm going to dyno soon , as the money comes in. To prove 100% what my motor looks like.
so far 1/4 miles have sucked, so much wheelspin, but
here is my best time -
13.6 @ 110 mph. 0-60 5.2 seconds
All runs were done here in ohio, so its about 45 degrees outside.
MY TIPS for anyone trying to attempt this swap-
I'm running 680cc secondary's and it seems to work great!! Not rich at all!! I DO NOT have a super afc or anything.
Just remember 10k 10w resistors on each one.
WRAP YOUR STOCK HARNESS with heat tape!!
This made such a big difference in my car, as the turbo heat and alternator are very high, and changed the resistance in the copper wire, causing me problems
I wrapped the whole thing in heat tape from JEGS, good for over 2000 degree protection
TRIPLE CHECK YOUR TIMMING!
I had my CAS one tooth off, and caused no power and even slight detonation after 4k rpm (oh, so very bad)
Triple CHECK YOUR SENSORS!
I had three bad sensors after putting in my new motor, and had to work each on out as I was breaking it in. I had a bad OMP, bad TPS, and a BAD AFM. not sure how it ran at all, but I found each one after a long time. Before you do a stock swap, check each one with a ohm meter and make sure they all are in spec. I could have saved myself alot of headache.
TRIPLE CHECK YOUR FUEL PRESSURE!!
I have the walbro 255 mounted externally, and running on 12v all the time. My stock FPR didnt like it at all!! I was running 90psi of fuel for a couple thousand miles, and wondered why I was running rich sometimes.
Buy a cheap auto meter and know for sure what your pressure is. I had to modify my stock rail by hack sawing off the stock FPR , welding on a AN fitting, and using a SX rising rate FPR (which works WAY better) this mod was simple but a pain in the ***, as the 89-91 dont unbolt like the 87-88 do (damn you S4 OWNERS!) I will post a write up how to do this mod. soon.
USE A GOOD AIR FILTER!!
I had a HKS filter and could not get boost after 4k, it just died out. THis was another problem for a while until I bought a K+N filter, problem fixed!! Conclusion, Turbo II need lots of air!
Do the reground MOD!!
ground everything , it helps so much and prevents trouble in the future. Ther is many write ups in the second gen section ,so check it out.
Conculsion- I NEED A BIGGER TURBO, I feel that my motor is a 13b, and has a big street port on intake and exhaust, so the little stocker cant push the psi at 7k and 8k
to bad, my motor is so smooth up there.) Time for a to4E or something like that.
Goals meet this year-
- stock turbo pushing 300 engine horsepower,
- response and high rpm of a NA motor (soooo smooth and fast revablity )
-mid 13's 1/4 mile.
-Reliable in cold and hot, (starts perfect in 19 degrees, and in 90 degrees out side temp)
-no jerkyness on and off throttle.
-Top speed of 150mph or more ( got to 153 real fast)
One goal I didnt mean to meet-
Average of 20 miles per gallon!! I dont know how, I run it pretty hard alot, and I do cruise at 70 mph on the freeway to work, but have stop and go traffic after work
( this fact still makes Coldy 13 mad, HAHAHAHAA)
Curent Kills so far-
2001 Subaru WRX with intake, intercooler and exhaust, who knows what else
2001 corvette (through corners, beat him any times) couldnt beat him in the straights (he had NOS and twin turbo's, oh well)
1997 SVT cobra Mustang ( top speed highway run, beat him bad)
2004 mecedes based dodge, I think it was called the Razor, just came out, but dont know the name. killed him bad.
2002 honda s2000, top end race, looked stock, beat him by 12 car lengths by 130.
Thats all so far, havent had a great summer, working on the car too much
So that is it for now, posting pics ultra soon so you guys can check it out. I want to add more onto this, and have other turbo guys post stuff here too.
Special thanks-
To Coldy13, great guy, need to race again now your car is running the way it should.
Thanks to NZconertible for all the help and info along the way
And Setzep ,for someone to look up to!
My Dad; look us up if anyone needs mazda work in OHio - Carswell's Rotary Connection (740) 927-7629 ask for KEN, he has been working on rotary's for 30 years, and helped me put my motor back together, as well of most my mechanical knowlegde.
THE CAR-
1985 GS(L-SE) converted from the GS suspension to GSL-SE, and changed over to a 5-speed ,power steering, racing beat front sway bar, 18mm rear sway bar, GTO widebody kit, I changed from the 4:10 to a 4:88, and now I'm back to a 3:909 from a GSL. I have 15x10 rear and 15x8 front R compound tires. Many strut braces. Kyb shocks, and racing beat springs. Handles power very well, I think it wants more
THE MOTOR-
89-91 13b trubo motor, that I rebuilt and ported, has stock 2mm apex seals, soild corner seals, dynamic balance, race bearings, 3rd gen stationary's, 3rd gen corner seal springs, 85 psi oil reg, brand new housings.
It's a little beast!
THE DRIVE TRAIN-
Turbo II j-spec 5-speed , HAS VERY SHORT GEARING
anyone else be warned, j-spec tranny's (at least the one I got) are geared different. I have all the ratio's figured out, 5th gear is .90:1.00 4th gear is 1.19:100, 3rd is 1.579, 2nd is 2.114, 1st is 3.90 !!! Top speed is 153.7 with a 3.909 rear-end and tires with a 6.75 foot roll-out. (275/50-15-nitto 555R) Good thing is I now can go 65 mph in 2nd @7000rpm YEAH!!
RPS kevlar ceramic 6-puck clutch, 10 lb steel flywheel
THE MODS-
STOCK 89-91 brand new factory turbocharger non-ported.
Full 3" racing beat downpipe, custom 3" exhaust with 3" straight through pre-silencers, and a 3"5-zigen muffler
Wlabro 255 Hp in-line fuel pump. stock 550cc primary injectors, 680cc GSL-se secondary injectors (all were cleaned and balanced by RC engineering)
HKS fuel cut defensor ( set at level 1, and any other level causes boost cut, factory recommends 2, but that didnt work for me, and yet it is wired perfectly)
Used Jet ecu, not sure what was done exactly, just know it was re-mapped for more boost and ignition timming redone.
large front mount intercooler, 33"x 7"x3.5" , piping from turbo is all 2" to intercooler, then goes 2.5 through intercooler, and stays 2.5" on the other side to a home made throttle body mount/pipe.
Of course motor is street ported, and I'm running a Home Depot boost controller (t-pin type inside cabin)
turbo inlet duct made from 3" pipe, almost a straight shot, and a KN air filter. SX rising rate fuel pressure regulator. Greddy boost gauge
Whew, okay now my two cents;
I have removed the following items with no side effects;
the boost controller, all three soleniods, air control valve, bac valve, and the AWS. I'm running pre-mix , with the OMP on the side firewall
I DO NOT GET BOOST CREEP! I was told by everyone it seems that I was going to creep, but no, I wish I could but I cant. I recently turned the boost all the way up, wastegate totally closed, and can get 17 psi up to 5k, and then my boost dies off to 10psi @6000 and 7.5psi by 7000rpm. The stock boost controller did a good job, but it only let 8.5 psi go by.
I then went to a manual controller, got up to 14 psi max.
Then I went to a TID with 3"piping, hoping for more, but no still 14 psi, dropping to 7.5 @7000
Okay, so I then re-routed the setup, took off the steel rack on the turbo and ran the turbo outlet vac line directly to the controller, and from the controller to the wastegate.
Now I can get 17 psi, for only a breif time, and still goes to 7.5 by 7000rpm, which is with the wastegate closed
Oh yeah the numbers- at 9.5 psi the G-tech says 190 Hp to the wheels
@14 psi I was getting into 215 to the wheels
tonight, @ 16-17 psi I hit 252 HP to the wheels!!
But that number is around 5500-6000, at 7k it closer 200 whp
I'm going to dyno soon , as the money comes in. To prove 100% what my motor looks like.
so far 1/4 miles have sucked, so much wheelspin, but
here is my best time -
13.6 @ 110 mph. 0-60 5.2 seconds
All runs were done here in ohio, so its about 45 degrees outside.
MY TIPS for anyone trying to attempt this swap-
I'm running 680cc secondary's and it seems to work great!! Not rich at all!! I DO NOT have a super afc or anything.
Just remember 10k 10w resistors on each one.WRAP YOUR STOCK HARNESS with heat tape!!
This made such a big difference in my car, as the turbo heat and alternator are very high, and changed the resistance in the copper wire, causing me problems
I wrapped the whole thing in heat tape from JEGS, good for over 2000 degree protection
TRIPLE CHECK YOUR TIMMING!
I had my CAS one tooth off, and caused no power and even slight detonation after 4k rpm (oh, so very bad)
Triple CHECK YOUR SENSORS!
I had three bad sensors after putting in my new motor, and had to work each on out as I was breaking it in. I had a bad OMP, bad TPS, and a BAD AFM. not sure how it ran at all, but I found each one after a long time. Before you do a stock swap, check each one with a ohm meter and make sure they all are in spec. I could have saved myself alot of headache.
TRIPLE CHECK YOUR FUEL PRESSURE!!
I have the walbro 255 mounted externally, and running on 12v all the time. My stock FPR didnt like it at all!! I was running 90psi of fuel for a couple thousand miles, and wondered why I was running rich sometimes.
Buy a cheap auto meter and know for sure what your pressure is. I had to modify my stock rail by hack sawing off the stock FPR , welding on a AN fitting, and using a SX rising rate FPR (which works WAY better) this mod was simple but a pain in the ***, as the 89-91 dont unbolt like the 87-88 do (damn you S4 OWNERS!) I will post a write up how to do this mod. soon.USE A GOOD AIR FILTER!!
I had a HKS filter and could not get boost after 4k, it just died out. THis was another problem for a while until I bought a K+N filter, problem fixed!! Conclusion, Turbo II need lots of air!
Do the reground MOD!!
ground everything , it helps so much and prevents trouble in the future. Ther is many write ups in the second gen section ,so check it out.
Conculsion- I NEED A BIGGER TURBO, I feel that my motor is a 13b, and has a big street port on intake and exhaust, so the little stocker cant push the psi at 7k and 8k
to bad, my motor is so smooth up there.) Time for a to4E or something like that.Goals meet this year-
- stock turbo pushing 300 engine horsepower,
- response and high rpm of a NA motor (soooo smooth and fast revablity
) -mid 13's 1/4 mile.
-Reliable in cold and hot, (starts perfect in 19 degrees, and in 90 degrees out side temp)
-no jerkyness on and off throttle.
-Top speed of 150mph or more ( got to 153 real fast)
One goal I didnt mean to meet-
Average of 20 miles per gallon!! I dont know how, I run it pretty hard alot, and I do cruise at 70 mph on the freeway to work, but have stop and go traffic after work
( this fact still makes Coldy 13 mad, HAHAHAHAA)
Curent Kills so far-
2001 Subaru WRX with intake, intercooler and exhaust, who knows what else
2001 corvette (through corners, beat him any times) couldnt beat him in the straights (he had NOS and twin turbo's, oh well)
1997 SVT cobra Mustang ( top speed highway run, beat him bad)
2004 mecedes based dodge, I think it was called the Razor, just came out, but dont know the name. killed him bad.
2002 honda s2000, top end race, looked stock, beat him by 12 car lengths by 130.
Thats all so far, havent had a great summer, working on the car too much
So that is it for now, posting pics ultra soon so you guys can check it out. I want to add more onto this, and have other turbo guys post stuff here too.
Special thanks-
To Coldy13, great guy, need to race again now your car is running the way it should.
Thanks to NZconertible for all the help and info along the way
And Setzep ,for someone to look up to!
My Dad; look us up if anyone needs mazda work in OHio - Carswell's Rotary Connection (740) 927-7629 ask for KEN, he has been working on rotary's for 30 years, and helped me put my motor back together, as well of most my mechanical knowlegde.
Last edited by GtoRx7; 11-10-03 at 11:56 PM.
11-11-03, 12:06 AM
#3
Re: Turbo first gen, 250 whp ,and knowledge so far
Originally posted by GtoRx7
Conculsion- I NEED A BIGGER TURBO, I feel that my motor is a 13b, and has a big street port on intake and exhaust, so the little stocker cant push the psi at 7k and 8k to bad, my motor is so smooth up there.) Time for a to4E or something like that.
Conculsion- I NEED A BIGGER TURBO, I feel that my motor is a 13b, and has a big street port on intake and exhaust, so the little stocker cant push the psi at 7k and 8k
to bad, my motor is so smooth up there.) Time for a to4E or something like that.
11-11-03, 02:31 PM
#6
Yeah, shutup kid.
Re: Turbo first gen, 250 whp ,and knowledge so far
Originally posted by GtoRx7
One goal I didnt mean to meet-
Average of 20 miles per gallon!! I dont know how, I run it pretty hard alot, and I do cruise at 70 mph on the freeway to work, but have stop and go traffic after work
( this fact still makes Coldy 13 mad, HAHAHAHAA)
Curent Kills so far-
2001 Subaru WRX with intake, intercooler and exhaust, who knows what else
2001 corvette (through corners, beat him any times) couldnt beat him in the straights (he had NOS and twin turbo's, oh well)
1997 SVT cobra Mustang ( top speed highway run, beat him bad)
2004 mecedes based dodge, I think it was called the Razor, just came out, but dont know the name. killed him bad.
2002 honda s2000, top end race, looked stock, beat him by 12 car lengths by 130.
Thats all so far, havent had a great summer, working on the car too much
So that is it for now, posting pics ultra soon so you guys can check it out. I want to add more onto this, and have other turbo guys post stuff here too.
Special thanks-
To Coldy13, great guy, need to race again now your car is running the way it should.
Thanks to NZconertible for all the help and info along the way
And Setzep ,for someone to look up to!
One goal I didnt mean to meet-
Average of 20 miles per gallon!! I dont know how, I run it pretty hard alot, and I do cruise at 70 mph on the freeway to work, but have stop and go traffic after work
( this fact still makes Coldy 13 mad, HAHAHAHAA)
Curent Kills so far-
2001 Subaru WRX with intake, intercooler and exhaust, who knows what else
2001 corvette (through corners, beat him any times) couldnt beat him in the straights (he had NOS and twin turbo's, oh well)
1997 SVT cobra Mustang ( top speed highway run, beat him bad)
2004 mecedes based dodge, I think it was called the Razor, just came out, but dont know the name. killed him bad.
2002 honda s2000, top end race, looked stock, beat him by 12 car lengths by 130.
Thats all so far, havent had a great summer, working on the car too much
So that is it for now, posting pics ultra soon so you guys can check it out. I want to add more onto this, and have other turbo guys post stuff here too.
Special thanks-
To Coldy13, great guy, need to race again now your car is running the way it should.
Thanks to NZconertible for all the help and info along the way
And Setzep ,for someone to look up to!
I think I'll have a chance with my boost creeping up to 14psi On the way back from the meet on friday I ran into a Talon/Eclipse TSi on the highway. We went from 80-120, and he was VERY far back after that I even gave him a head start(since I bog everytime I floor it, damn I need that MSD). That's the only other race I've had though.If I have some extra $, I might buy your old turbo when you get a new one.
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11-12-03, 12:30 AM
#8
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Very informative. To us who are in teh midst of doing TII swaps, tips from experience like the air filter, wrapping wiring harness, triple checking everything, etc... are really helpful.
Sounds like ur having a blast and i can't wait till i have one too!
Zachstylez
Sounds like ur having a blast and i can't wait till i have one too!
Zachstylez
11-12-03, 01:25 AM
#9
.
yeah as of right now, I'm planning on keeping the stock ecu, and most likely going with the greddy E-manage for control. For a while I wanted to do stand-alone, but now that the pesky little ecu is working right I'll keep it around.
I live near columbus, in pataskala
Yeah it probly will be a nice race if I shift at 7k, as my peak horsepower is nothing up there, and yours just keeps getting better as you go up in rpm. I'm going to try and g-tech it again shifting at 6.2k since my peak torque and hp is at 5k, see what kinda numbers I can get.
yeah, I like to decribe that much psi and so little flow as pushing your motor with a needle! I dont like it either, just ran that high so I know I could. daily I drive at 11 psi. I know the 17 psi is still somewhat safe, but I prefer 12psi and lots of flow. Just cant afford the larger turbo yet
came home late tonight, but I will put pics on tomorrow!
Very Nice!!! Do you plan on running the stock ECU when you get a bigger Turbo?
What part of ohio are you in?
I'm ready to race you again I think I'll have a chance with my boost creeping up to 14psi On the way back from the meet on friday I ran into a Talon/Eclipse TSi on the highway. We went from 80-120, and he was VERY far back after that I even gave him a head start(since I bog everytime I floor it, damn I need that MSD). That's the only other race I've had though.
15-17psi on stock turbo and ecu? Too dangerous!
came home late tonight, but I will put pics on tomorrow!
11-12-03, 11:20 PM
#11
Yeah, shutup kid.
I got another race today. On my way to work today I pulled up next to a '03 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution They have 270hp stock, and run a 13.8 1/4. I thought it would be a fair race, and a good test for my car. I got a good launch, but he has AWD, so my front bumper was at his rear at the end of 1st. Shift into 2nd and I start pulling on him, at the end of 2nd his front bumper was at the middle of my door. Shift into 3rd, and he just gets farther back, by 7.5k in 3rd he was at least 3 car-lengths back. Just before I shift I look at my boost gauge, and it was at 9psi Shift into 4th and he gets a little farther back, so I let off right away and show him a nice flame
They have 270hp stock, and run a 13.8 1/4. I thought it would be a fair race, and a good test for my car. I got a good launch, but he has AWD, so my front bumper was at his rear at the end of 1st. Shift into 2nd and I start pulling on him, at the end of 2nd his front bumper was at the middle of my door. Shift into 3rd, and he just gets farther back, by 7.5k in 3rd he was at least 3 car-lengths back. Just before I shift I look at my boost gauge, and it was at 9psi Shift into 4th and he gets a little farther back, so I let off right away and show him a nice flame
11-12-03, 11:59 PM
#13
damn, coldy that is the car I wanted to race! That is sweet, major victory. I just put mine away for most likely the winter. I might pull it out sometime, but not sure. I could use the savings of no insurance. Plus the stock turbo is making me mad, I hate having all my power at 5.5k, it just sucks to bad. I will be taking off the stocker soon, if you got some spare dough, you could pick it up before winter maybe.....hmmm
11-13-03, 12:02 AM
#14
Oh yeah the pics, I hate putting pics on here! Its like pulling teeth! I took a bunch of shots tonight, and they all are waiting approval and will be posted in the image section. I then will add a link from here. Thats my goal at least. Soon pics, soon!
11-14-03, 08:56 PM
#23
Originally posted by 680RWHP12A
i think coldy's $800.00 12a turbo will smoke the 13b!!! anybody want to side bet??
i think coldy's $800.00 12a turbo will smoke the 13b!!! anybody want to side bet??
get it, smoke them out LOL We'll I have done some serious things to mine lately, and i hope to god smoking wont be an issue anymore... If it is, im replacing the turbo.... If anyone is clueless here, think 13brew rebuild kit even tho the motor was FREAKING cherry inside.
11-14-03, 10:52 PM
#24
Originally posted by MIKE-P-28
my turbo used to smoke anything out of the block get it, smoke them out LOL We'll I have done some serious things to mine lately, and i hope to god smoking wont be an issue anymore... If it is, im replacing the turbo.... If anyone is clueless here, think 13brew rebuild kit even tho the motor was FREAKING cherry inside.
my turbo used to smoke anything out of the block
get it, smoke them out LOL We'll I have done some serious things to mine lately, and i hope to god smoking wont be an issue anymore... If it is, im replacing the turbo.... If anyone is clueless here, think 13brew rebuild kit even tho the motor was FREAKING cherry inside.
The reason it smoked was that "BNR Special" Turbo you got, not the engine.
And weren't you selling the whole thing?
