turbo charge, or replace?
04-28-03, 02:15 PM
#1
Prosthetic head.
Thread Starter
turbo charge, or replace?
I have heard that the RX-8 enjine is the same size as my GSL-SE enjine. I am wondering if it'll actually work to eventually replace mine with the RX8 enjine.
Second, which would be cheaper/easier?..... installing a turbocharger, or replacing the enjine as I mention earlier(if it works)?
Second, which would be cheaper/easier?..... installing a turbocharger, or replacing the enjine as I mention earlier(if it works)?
04-28-03, 02:21 PM
#2
turbo definitely cheaper..
but we'd love to see someone take the engine out of a crashed Rx8 and do somethin gcool into a 1st gen with it..
Think of this :1st gen with a renesis in it... and eventually someone's gonna rig a turbo onto it...
Hmm.... a TII's turbos, on a Renesis.. in a 1st Gen '81 with the rear end off a GSL-SE (for the LSD and the discs).... I'm just dreamin, don't mind me
but we'd love to see someone take the engine out of a crashed Rx8 and do somethin gcool into a 1st gen with it..
Think of this :1st gen with a renesis in it... and eventually someone's gonna rig a turbo onto it...
Hmm.... a TII's turbos, on a Renesis.. in a 1st Gen '81 with the rear end off a GSL-SE (for the LSD and the discs).... I'm just dreamin, don't mind me
04-28-03, 07:45 PM
#3
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Installing a RX-8 engine at this stage would be far too expensive, both in terms of the engine cost and the engineering cost to get it to fit. Wait say 5 years and it may be different as shown by 20B transplants first in Gen 3s then more lately in Gen 1s.
Dropping a turbo and intercooler on your stock 13B engine is relatively cheap, especially if you use junk-yard parts. However, the real problem is whether a 20 year old engine and transmission can take the stress without a rebuild. There is nothing worse than adding expensive bolt on modifications, then having a major problem with the internals. Rotaries may wimper as they die but its just as expensive as a bang in a piston engine.
This is why transplanting the later 13BT usually ends up a better option than upgrading a 13B .
If you are looking for a 220hp engine configuration, your most economical and reliable route is a 13BT engine and transmission from a turbo FC with slight modifications. The sticky at the front of this forum gives you all the details, its a very common transplant which can give you between 180-500hp on a street car depending how much money you wish to spend. Budgets of $3,500-$12,000 would be typical for those performance ranges. Starting with the gsl-se will slightly reduce costs, and give you a better base platform.
Dropping a turbo and intercooler on your stock 13B engine is relatively cheap, especially if you use junk-yard parts. However, the real problem is whether a 20 year old engine and transmission can take the stress without a rebuild. There is nothing worse than adding expensive bolt on modifications, then having a major problem with the internals. Rotaries may wimper as they die but its just as expensive as a bang in a piston engine.
This is why transplanting the later 13BT usually ends up a better option than upgrading a 13B .
If you are looking for a 220hp engine configuration, your most economical and reliable route is a 13BT engine and transmission from a turbo FC with slight modifications. The sticky at the front of this forum gives you all the details, its a very common transplant which can give you between 180-500hp on a street car depending how much money you wish to spend. Budgets of $3,500-$12,000 would be typical for those performance ranges. Starting with the gsl-se will slightly reduce costs, and give you a better base platform.
Last edited by PaulFitzwarryne; 04-28-03 at 08:05 PM.
04-28-03, 08:45 PM
#4
Prosthetic head.
Thread Starter
That's the answer I was expecting guys, thanks. Now all I have to do is figure out what's actually in these little rotary enjines. I am 16 and it's safe to say I know nothing about rotaries.
04-28-03, 09:43 PM
#5
That's okay.. Hell, I'm only verging on 19, and in less than a year, I can honestly say I know more about rotaries than most people in this City. They aren't hard to learn, but you have to put a lot of time in. Get a Heynes manual. NOW.. They're great, and small bolt-on parts will give you the confidance you need to get going.
I spent the winter perusing the forums, reading the manual, going to websites...
www.rotaryengineillustrated.com is awesome for beginners. The ideas are pretty straightforward, and if you stick with the forum, you'll be up to speed in no time
Jon
I spent the winter perusing the forums, reading the manual, going to websites...
www.rotaryengineillustrated.com is awesome for beginners. The ideas are pretty straightforward, and if you stick with the forum, you'll be up to speed in no time
Jon
04-28-03, 11:19 PM
#6
Prosthetic head.
Thread Starter
One more question about putting in a turbo... Is it worth it on an '85 with bout 15k miles on it? Turbos are nice but if I eventually have to get the enjine rebuilt will putting a turbo in just complicate the whole process?
04-29-03, 12:53 AM
#7
Got Boost?
If its seriously got 15k on the tach, consider yourself a lucky man...... and if you've got the ingenuity to make your own turbo system, I'm sure the engine will handle moderate boost levels.
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04-29-03, 01:00 AM
#8
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I would suggest the engine is coming to the end of its life. Adding a turbo at this stage would accelerate the process.
An economical option would be to rebuild and streetport with a carb modification/upgrade. This would give you around 180hp far higher than going turbo without a lot of other modifications. Remember the 12AT in stock form only gives 136hp at 6lb boost. A Gen 2 turbo, manifold and bonnet would only give you the same power. To aim for 180hp would require an upgraded carb and intercooler. At 150k km the most likely result would be engine failure so you are back to square one with an empty wallet!
An economical option would be to rebuild and streetport with a carb modification/upgrade. This would give you around 180hp far higher than going turbo without a lot of other modifications. Remember the 12AT in stock form only gives 136hp at 6lb boost. A Gen 2 turbo, manifold and bonnet would only give you the same power. To aim for 180hp would require an upgraded carb and intercooler. At 150k km the most likely result would be engine failure so you are back to square one with an empty wallet!
04-29-03, 01:18 PM
#9
15k?? WT-muh-F?
are you sure you don't mean 150,000? (mine's an 84 with 163k so that would make more sense)...
15k means that it's been driven.... less than 1000km/year... That... could be a huge problem.
Definitely rebuild, street port, and modify your nikki. Add some exhaust and you'll have everyone eating your dust in no time.
are you sure you don't mean 150,000? (mine's an 84 with 163k so that would make more sense)...
15k means that it's been driven.... less than 1000km/year... That... could be a huge problem.
Definitely rebuild, street port, and modify your nikki. Add some exhaust and you'll have everyone eating your dust in no time.
04-29-03, 06:33 PM
#10
Prosthetic head.
Thread Starter
Yes, as a matterof fact, it is actually 150,000. Oops, yeah I suppose that could change just a little bit when contemlpating a turbo. So I take it my old enjine should probably be rebuilt before I get a turbo put in? Yeah, that's what I thought.
04-29-03, 07:06 PM
#11
Originally posted by excitingleopard
Yes, as a matterof fact, it is actually 150,000. Oops, yeah I suppose that could change just a little bit when contemlpating a turbo. So I take it my old enjine should probably be rebuilt before I get a turbo put in? Yeah, that's what I thought.
Yes, as a matterof fact, it is actually 150,000. Oops, yeah I suppose that could change just a little bit when contemlpating a turbo. So I take it my old enjine should probably be rebuilt before I get a turbo put in? Yeah, that's what I thought.
04-29-03, 07:36 PM
#12
Got Boost?
Go ahead and put the Turbo on it. When it goes, it goes, at least you'll know it will work with the Turbo. Rebuild after the "pop".
04-29-03, 09:21 PM
#15
Prosthetic head.
Thread Starter
So basically, for a longer lasting enjine, take care of it and don't stress it. For a long lasting, more HP enjine, the ideal thing to do would be to get a rebuild, then turbo.
Q. What are the best companies that make aftermarket mufflers for an '85? The only ones I could find online was "Racing Beat". Also, the only aftermarket exhaust systems I could find for it was "Bonez". I'm pretty much oblivious as far as what to look for (besides more power, duh) in exhaust systems and mufflers.
Q. What are the best companies that make aftermarket mufflers for an '85? The only ones I could find online was "Racing Beat". Also, the only aftermarket exhaust systems I could find for it was "Bonez". I'm pretty much oblivious as far as what to look for (besides more power, duh) in exhaust systems and mufflers.
04-30-03, 05:27 AM
#16
Originally posted by Directfreak
Go ahead and put the Turbo on it. When it goes, it goes, at least you'll know it will work with the Turbo. Rebuild after the "pop".
Go ahead and put the Turbo on it. When it goes, it goes, at least you'll know it will work with the Turbo. Rebuild after the "pop".
04-30-03, 05:41 AM
#17
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my engine only has 99k miles one it... im thinking about running a blow through turbo with a yaw modified carb... what kind of hp numbers can i expect from that setup? i want to either run a t3 or t4 turbo...
-greg
-greg
05-03-03, 12:31 AM
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Greg- the power will be restricted by the exhaust system, and possibly the fuel pump. The Nikki carb also is difficult to set up for a turbo. Without an intercooleri and with NA rotors I would not boost above 7psi. Depending on these factors I would predict anywhere between 145-165hp.
Remember the 12AT only produced 138hp while the earlier 13BT produced 180hp. Moremazda, in his very good thread on adding a turbo to a 12A, estimated his engine was producing around 155hp. That is some 120-125rwhp which can be confirmed by a dyno test.
Remember the 12AT only produced 138hp while the earlier 13BT produced 180hp. Moremazda, in his very good thread on adding a turbo to a 12A, estimated his engine was producing around 155hp. That is some 120-125rwhp which can be confirmed by a dyno test.
Last edited by PaulFitzwarryne; 05-03-03 at 12:36 AM.
05-03-03, 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by vipernicus42
That's okay.. Hell, I'm only verging on 19, and in less than a year, I can honestly say I know more about rotaries than most people in this City. They aren't hard to learn, but you have to put a lot of time in. Get a Heynes manual. NOW.. They're great, and small bolt-on parts will give you the confidance you need to get going.
I spent the winter perusing the forums, reading the manual, going to websites...
www.rotaryengineillustrated.com is awesome for beginners. The ideas are pretty straightforward, and if you stick with the forum, you'll be up to speed in no time
Jon
That's okay.. Hell, I'm only verging on 19, and in less than a year, I can honestly say I know more about rotaries than most people in this City. They aren't hard to learn, but you have to put a lot of time in. Get a Heynes manual. NOW.. They're great, and small bolt-on parts will give you the confidance you need to get going.
I spent the winter perusing the forums, reading the manual, going to websites...
www.rotaryengineillustrated.com is awesome for beginners. The ideas are pretty straightforward, and if you stick with the forum, you'll be up to speed in no time
Jon