When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
guys got any further feedback regarding running t3 panhard without sway bar?
70% street / 20% club runs circuit / 10% drag
im replacing my diff to something stronger 8" hilux (pretty common here in aus)
rear swaybar delete and panhard are pretty much the go-to for all the old IPRA cars.
i went with a weld-in. The t3 ones look sketch imo. Try hitting up adsy aka acbron. He was making sweet billet brackets for them last time i was there. His mate Stuie had rowans old jig, it wouldn't suprise me if he is knocking out kits by now.
rear swaybar delete and panhard are pretty much the go-to for all the old IPRA cars.
i went with a weld-in. The t3 ones look sketch imo. Try hitting up adsy aka acbron. He was making sweet billet brackets for them last time i was there. His mate Stuie had rowans old jig, it wouldn't suprise me if he is knocking out kits by now.
Yeha I've been lucky enough to find an original adsy subframe + front and rear coil over kit to suit the hilux that's going in. evo rotors, FD brakes.
Hoping for a smooth install as it all came out of a working car.
Last little bits now, just need a power steer rack and find a way to make the fc front sway attach.
Everything T3 makes looks sketch. It's not parts made to go fast, it's hardparker **** like Maxpeedingrods/Ilovetacotaco crap on eBay. Even the most casual observation of the parts they make for RX-7s proves that they have no idea what the RX-7 suspension issues are or what needs to be done to correct them. Most of their products actually make the problems worse, not better.
i spoke with Ground Control this morning, they're $199 and made to order, not in stock. that does Not include shipping and it takes about 2-3 weeks depending on what color you want. cools
Everything T3 makes looks sketch. It's not parts made to go fast, it's hardparker **** like Maxpeedingrods/Ilovetacotaco crap on eBay. Even the most casual observation of the parts they make for RX-7s proves that they have no idea what the RX-7 suspension issues are or what needs to be done to correct them. Most of their products actually make the problems worse, not better.
^^^^ This!
This chassis is 40 years old. After all the years and classes they have been competitively modified and raced,t3 starts bringing their bolt on go fasters to market and there are those that cannot wait for the next geegaw to come out,just like cats attracted to shiny ****.
I submit those that buy and put this stuff on their cars do so for the open hood bling factor,if they drove or had skills to drive car hard enough they would soon see the waste of money.
Same,same for big brake kits on 1st gens,VERY few actually need this...maybe if you swapped in V8 or some other 500 hp power plant and needed the more whoa to stop the more go but no the majority is going for the look.
1st gen brakes can be optimized for best performance without resorting to grafting on bigger parts-for majority of street use.
T3 is a successful company if success can be measured in separating their customers from their wallets.
I don't know, some of the T3 stuff is pretty decent. Their 2" tube front struts are on a number of race cars and are reasonably priced. However, the Panhard bar thing is a POS. Long before T3 existed this kind of panhard bar conversion was on he market made by other someone else. In racing these things flex and eventually break and I have seen it first hand. Spend the time to make something that uses dedicated brackets and is not a band aid conversion
I race my car with t3 front coilovers, camber plates, tension rods, rear drop brackets, and rear lower control arms and have had zero issues. The parts were a huge improvement over what I had before.. mind you some of their products I would never install, but the parts I do have are very well made.. the front coilovers complement my rear re-speed suspension setup with Koni shocks very well!
What do the "rear drop brackets" do? Besides nothing useful?
Solid tension rods are mainly good for cracking bodies, IMO.
Drop brackets make it possible to maintain the correct geometry on the lower control arm on a lowered car. All the EP cars (the fast ones anyway) have relocated "lower control arm" mounts on the rear axle. The ones around here, including one the won the runoffs, have this mount dropped 2.5 inches. These cars have fab'd the lower mounts, the drop brackets T3 sells just make it easier. The same stuff is common in the Mustang world and it works if used properly.
Not sure about the tension rods. I have had ones mounted in spherical bearings on my car since 2000 or so (previous owner built them). Nothing cracked on my car but I only drive in the dirt on accident so maybe that is the difference
Look I am not trying to defend a parts vendor that makes parts for our cars. Some of their stuff is dumb but not all of it. So blanket statements really don't make sense whether they are pro or con. And for the record, I don't own any of their stuff. I have no stake in their business.
I race my car with t3 front coilovers, camber plates, tension rods, rear drop brackets, and rear lower control arms and have had zero issues. The parts were a huge improvement over what I had before.. mind you some of their products I would never install, but the parts I do have are very well made.. the front coilovers complement my rear re-speed suspension setup with Koni shocks very well!
Drop brackets make it possible to maintain the correct geometry on the lower control arm on a lowered car. All the EP cars (the fast ones anyway) have relocated "lower control arm" mounts on the rear axle. The ones around here, including one the won the runoffs, have this mount dropped 2.5 inches. These cars have fab'd the lower mounts, the drop brackets T3 sells just make it easier. The same stuff is common in the Mustang world and it works if used properly.
Scott, My homemade drop brackets and revised suspension geometry have worked out well for me. I can totally tune the squat of the rear suspension now under power
There seem to be some incorrect or odd viewpoints about our history with road racing vs drifting. Not sure exactly where that originated. My interest was originally in road racing and I resisted the drifting "fad" in the USA for many years. Then I tried it at ButtonWillow one day, and thought it was quite fun. We did that for a few years, and used competing in Formula D as a way to help teach us how to build a car and exactly how far things could go before they started breaking. I've since gotten a bit bored of drifting, and prefer grip in my personal cars.
Regarding installing a panhard on the RX7:
1. I do suggest strengthening or bracing the OEM lower mount on the diff. The metal is very thin there and can definitely see heavy side loads with a panhard. Race tires and rust will only make it more prone to cracking.
2. The panhard eliminates the watts link entirely
3. The factory 4 links are triangulated. This is not great, and part of the reason the watts link causes binding in the rear end. When using a panhard, I suggest moving the upper chassis 4 link mounting point to the outside of the chassis to make the setup a MUCH more parallel 4 link/panhard design. This does put that upper 4 link in a single shear design, but if set up with the proper hardware, this will not be a problem. Once all this is done, the rear end geometry is VERY similar to the AE86, and quite predictable. On my personal SA RX7, I found the car much more enjoyable to drive at the limit with this setup.
Can you make the rear end geometry even better, by not using bolt on solutions? Well yes, of course. But not everyone in every part of the world has the time, skill or resources to undertake mild to wild fabrication projects. Bolt on parts are meant to improve things while working within the envelope of minimal modifications.
We make our parts based on customer requests. Some of you folks may have the opinion that our job is simply to bilk customers of their money.......It doesn't work that way. If enough people ask for a three headed tadpole masher, I'll make it, and do my best to make it the best one ever made. The RX2, RX3, and RX7 community has been incredibly supportive and enthusiastic. We greatly enjoy working with individual owners and making the parts they desire. That's all there is to it. For all those that want to do something different or do it their own way, go for it! I believe the world needs more people making stuff and exploring different solutions.
1. I do suggest strengthening or bracing the OEM lower mount on the diff. The metal is very thin there and can definitely see heavy side loads with a panhard. Race tires and rust will only make it more prone to cracking.
This should be specified on the website, and also, it pretty much means it isn't a direct bolt on part.
I have the weld on T3 coilovers and camber plates. The camber plates are stupid because they have no caster adjustment. They are made to fit the FB and FC by having the holes slotted out. The newest version of the camber plates address this problem. No caster ajustment.
The weld on coilovers use rubber o-rings to hold the aluminum threaded barrel in place on the strut. I had my spring perch about 3/4 the way up the barrel. The O-rings worked there way down the strut tube so the top of the threaded barrel was moving around.
I had to make a ring out of flat bar weld it to the top of the strut tube. The t3 coilovers you get from t3 look a lot better than the DIY kit.
Last edited by Holdfast; 02-17-20 at 08:34 AM.
Reason: Miss spelled
The T3 panhard rod looks ok for lower lateral loads such as street driving, and will likely be ok for autocross. At least with street tires. If you do a track day, especially with sticky R compounds it may run into trouble. There are two issues with it. It may bend or rip out where it mounts to the axle on the drivers side. The rod itself has a bend in the middle and under severe load it may bend some more, load up, then unload quickly. Which would make the rear end a bit hard to control and not consistent. You can solve these two problems by:
1. Weld gussets from the axle bracket (driver side) to the axle itself. You can even add a support brace to the pumpkin.
2. Weld gussets to either side of the rod center bend.
Using the stock chassis mount on the passenger side, formerly used by the Watts, should be okay since it was designed for lateral loads. At least until you install slicks.
Ground Control piece has large bracket for the axle bracket, looks like it would weld in fine from the pic I saw on their website. It also uses a mounting plate that bolts to the lower shock mount, which would also weld to the axle tube nice to see that. GC also has already welded gussets to the center bend. I think this is a nicer piece.
The design of this bar is a bit off, since the bar should run parallel to the rear axle. This type of bar that goes under the axle and forward will create a slight fore to aft movement of the rear end, but not much and I think overall its much better than the stock Watts. I installed an earlier version of the GC panhard rod back in 1999, did the aforementioned gusset upgrades and it has never bent metal. Handled much nicer and easier to control too. Using 235/45/13 R compounds and a 12aJ Bridgeport on road race tracks.
The T3 panhard rod looks ok for lower lateral loads such as street driving, and will likely be ok for autocross. At least with street tires. If you do a track day, especially with sticky R compounds it may run into trouble. There are two issues with it. It may bend or rip out where it mounts to the axle on the drivers side. The rod itself has a bend in the middle and under severe load it may bend some more, load up, then unload quickly. Which would make the rear end a bit hard to control and not consistent. You can solve these two problems by:
1. Weld gussets from the axle bracket (driver side) to the axle itself. You can even add a support brace to the pumpkin.
2. Weld gussets to either side of the rod center bend.
Using the stock chassis mount on the passenger side, formerly used by the Watts, should be okay since it was designed for lateral loads. At least until you install slicks.
Ground Control piece has large bracket for the axle bracket, looks like it would weld in fine from the pic I saw on their website. It also uses a mounting plate that bolts to the lower shock mount, which would also weld to the axle tube nice to see that. GC also has already welded gussets to the center bend. I think this is a nicer piece.
The design of this bar is a bit off, since the bar should run parallel to the rear axle. This type of bar that goes under the axle and forward will create a slight fore to aft movement of the rear end, but not much and I think overall its much better than the stock Watts. I installed an earlier version of the GC panhard rod back in 1999, did the aforementioned gusset upgrades and it has never bent metal. Handled much nicer and easier to control too. Using 235/45/13 R compounds and a 12aJ Bridgeport on road race tracks.
like... you're an idiot.
i posted this on 2/4/20 - so just under a month ago. i spoke with Ground Control this morning, they're $199 and made to order, not in stock. that does Not include shipping and it takes about 2-3 weeks depending on what color you want. cools
like... you're an idiot.
i posted this on 2/4/20 - so just under a month ago. i spoke with Ground Control this morning, they're $199 and made to order, not in stock. that does Not include shipping and it takes about 2-3 weeks depending on what color you want. cools
Damn my bad. I dont have a lot of time to read every post with work and all. I miss quoted the price. My mistake. Dick.
Photo of GC panhard can be seen on the coilover package page. The bracket is nice, but I still think it should be welded in place along the axle to improve lateral support. https://groundcontrolstore.com/produ...oilover-system
Yes the proper way is to run the fixed mount down from the passenger frame rail and a diagonal brace going over to the drivers side frame rail.
Great photo of TriLink. I have same. Link from under trans tunnel to top of diff . Rod ends. 350 lb springs, 205/50/15 slicks with 40 treadwear. SeriousaSerious strong welding. Hard road racing. Great !!!
The T3 panhard rod looks ok for lower lateral loads such as street driving, and will likely be ok for autocross. At least with street tires. If you do a track day, especially with sticky R compounds it may run into trouble. There are two issues with it. It may bend or rip out where it mounts to the axle on the drivers side. The rod itself has a bend in the middle and under severe load it may bend some more, load up, then unload quickly. Which would make the rear end a bit hard to control and not consistent. You can solve these two problems by:
1. Weld gussets from the axle bracket (driver side) to the axle itself. You can even add a support brace to the pumpkin.
2. Weld gussets to either side of the rod center bend.
Using the stock chassis mount on the passenger side, formerly used by the Watts, should be okay since it was designed for lateral loads. At least until you install slicks.
Ground Control piece has large bracket for the axle bracket, looks like it would weld in fine from the pic I saw on their website. It also uses a mounting plate that bolts to the lower shock mount, which would also weld to the axle tube nice to see that. GC also has already welded gussets to the center bend. I think this is a nicer piece.
The design of this bar is a bit off, since the bar should run parallel to the rear axle. This type of bar that goes under the axle and forward will create a slight fore to aft movement of the rear end, but not much and I think overall its much better than the stock Watts. I installed an earlier version of the GC panhard rod back in 1999, did the aforementioned gusset upgrades and it has never bent metal. Handled much nicer and easier to control too. Using 235/45/13 R compounds and a 12aJ Bridgeport on road race tracks.
i have the full t3 setup on my 84 gslse so i will see how it works. Im currently going to run 200 tw tires wheels are 17x9.5 all 4 coners. I will look for ways to strengthen the stock watts link bracket.
So I have a question, what if none of the handling portion of this is actually a big deal to me, i just want to be able to lower the car without binding, will the panhard conversion let me do that?
02-03-20, 10:11 PM
