Lotus00

That M-90 is a screw-type supercharger, isnt it? I thought those didnt heat up the intake very much, so you wouldnt have to run an intercooler.

Sterling

Intercoolers are for smart people.

Sterling

The M-90 is a VERY EFFICIENT blower...
-as far as ROOTS blowers go!

But it isn't a screw-type.
The Whipple and Lysolm superchargers are screw types.
The rotors are different from each other, and create a screwing motion that produces virtually seamless boost...I think.
The are a positive displcement blower, but they are not a ROOTS positive displacement blower. They are far better, and priced accordingly.

The Eaton supercharger utilizes helical tri-lobed rotors, rear entry, and a specially ported outlet designed to create as little pulsing as possible, as well as being as efficient as possible.

There is a company, Magnasun, that is liscenced by Eaton to manufacture snouts, and specially designed housings for the Eaton series that even further add to the efficiency.

The Eaton M-90 takes something like 50 HP to create 7 psi...I dunno. It's been a while, and I've forgotten the numbers exactly, but you can look it up.
But when the system is bypassed for cruising under no boost, the blower requires about 3 HP to run.

The Camden is a straight, two lobed rotored blower. It has alot of displacement for it's size because of the two-lobe design, but it's very old school.
I imagine it pulses like crazy.

Old schoolers didn't use to intercool their blowers. They almost always set them up in draw-through configuration, which of course does not permitt for an IC.
But with blow-thru, you only need a prepped carb, bonnet, pressure sensitive regulator, and you can use an intercooler.

Anyone who does any research will find that intercoolers can make an astounding difference in performance.
-So can water injection; another old school trick that we see too little of these days.

With the introduction of production fulie turbos being the norm, we see old school tricks go the way side.
They should be re-examined to put todays thought into them.

Tx_antonio

I know guys running 12 lbs of boost in a 289 small block ford, a couple of 5.0s with about 10 each, and even a Harley 883 sportser w/ about 5 pounds....None have intercoolers...Your not playing with really hot exhaust fumes in order to get forced air. Your running off yopur cam and pulling in Fresh cool air. plus...even if the s/c does not require oil to be run through it in opperation...thatr does not mean that you do not OIL OR GREASE YOUR S/C. Think of all that spinning its doing. you don't think it needs a little somethin to help keep friction down? Im still confused on why you think you would need to use an intercooler. what are you dealling with that heats the motor up more. Its just like the ultimate ram air. Seems to me like a HUGE watse of money.There are more important thing to spend that on....Like a rebuild before you slap it on. Oh you thought your motor would take a small amount of boost w/o a rebuild...Good luck in about 25-30k miles. If your that concerned...Get another electric fan to help out. But I still say you don't need it and think your confusing the COMPLEATLY different Turblows to the infamous Super Charger..........

Tx_antonio

I just think your turning the $300 project into a $1500-$2000 project

Tx_antonio

I don't think the guys reading this want to spend alot of money....and unfortunatly don't really want to work either. This is not the way to truely suppercharge your car...If you want that then plan on spending the cash. You will not get an insane amount of power from that M90..think about it ...its off a V-6 T-bird..... that has a small thottle body....samller than our 4bbl carb. Not to dis the T-bird 'cause it really is a quick car. running 5lbs of boost is like 25-40 HP and for $300 THAT is the insane part.

Tx_antonio

Major Props to The kid responsible for this discovery...and to the man from the 2nd gen threads for showing us the light

Sterling

Well, you know best.

Manntis

they didn't have it for the 1st year it was introduced, but used an aftercooler from then on. However, I've heard that there wasn't much approach temperature difference with it, hence me wondering if it was required.

Bolox

"Im still confused on why you think you would need to use an intercooler. what are you dealling with that heats the motor up more."

its not that it heats the motor up more, its that as the air is compressed, it heats up, and an intercooler cools the AIR going into the motor (cooler aim is more dense = more air in the same amount of space = more air to burn = more power (=more fuel used, but thats not the point))


in laymans terms;
as air is compressed it heats up, all an inter cooler does is cool it down some...


-Cheers

Kenku

Okay, intercoolers are good. As people have said, compressing air heats it up. Period. No way around this, it just does. Intercoolers remove heat. Thus, more efficiency. Thus more horsepower. Period. And also more resistance to detonation.

Traditionally, on the 6-71 drawthrough blowers that hotrodders were using back in the day, they ran a *LOT* richer than is efficient in order to fight detonation. This is a fairly standard trick, but not a very useful one.

Kenne Bell uses intercoolers on their higher end setups. You've heard of them, right? Jackson Racing offers intercoolers on their higher end kits... Mercedes uses intercoolers on their supercharged cars, *FORD* uses intercooling on... well, some of their supercharged cars. The Ford GT does at any rate.

Intercoolers are harder to package in between cylinder banks of a V-8, is all. But people figured out how and look.

You can get away with not having an intercooler, especially in low boost applications. Guess what, you can get away with not having an intercooler in low boost applications on a turbo too! Lots of companies have. It's not as efficient though, and it's dead simple to put an air/air intercooler into the intake path on a turbo, so nowadays pretty much all turbo setups are intercooled.

Manntis

I've no intercooler on my Turbo Daytona and it runs reasonably well. In that application switching to the TII (Chrysler, not Mazda) config of intercooler and BOV frees up more HP, but that's because of inefficient manifold designs, etc.

Tsi_Xtreme

a Merkur XR4Ti is a turbo car that also doesn't have a intercooler and runs very well makes about 175hp on stock boost.

a Thunderbird Turbo Coupe uses the same engine and has a top mount intercooler and makes 190hp on stock boost.

Yes intercoolers = more horsepower

Tsi_Xtreme

true it don't make much difference but you have to take into account that its a very very very small intercooler and its placed in a horriable space where it hardly gets any air to cool it. If this had been a front mount or top mount with a hood scoop you would have saw better numbers.

Tanjo

My new dream. Twin M90 charged blowthrough 12a. for under 1000. Sounds good to me.

Tx_antonio

run dual webbers with the twin S/C??

79+80+84_rx-7

Sterling knows turbos are better, he is just in denial, he'll see the light someday

85rotarypower

You know, another company that used SC on some of their cars is Buick. I know, I was thinking about swaping a SC onto my Buick from a later Park Ave before I got the 7. I can't remember what model of eaton it is (might be M60), but I know it was way more efficient than the one on the T-bird supercoupe. It used the same throttle body as the standard 3.8L V6, which flows more than our Nikki carbs (I think its over at least 45mm). Most of those cars were running 7psi stock (on 8.0:1 comp though). I know this is a good SC though because it can be made to make more than 15psi with the right pulley size. There are some people out there that are running almost 400 hp from the SC 3.8L V6 in the buicks, on stock superchargers (with smaller pulley of course). I think that if you could figure a way to use an FMIC with one of these SCs, then you could get some mad power from a 12A.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

How about the Eaton M112 off the Ford Lightning?



For 1,000 on Ebay.

I know I love mine!!

hotty

Df, would the 112 be too big for a 13b?

79+80+84_rx-7

You should put one of those upgraded pulleys.... Not lightnings, but a lightning upgraded one, haha.... Friend has one with a **** load of other things on his lightning, and it PULLS HARD.....

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Trust me, My Truck is not stock, pulls very Hard, and has more than DESTROYED quite a few modded Lightnings, and other "sports" cars.

79+80+84_rx-7

"Caveliers arent sports cars!".... jk... the ohc monster v8 isnt anything to poke a stick at and **** off......

nopistons94

so im lost, after looking through all this ****, is there a freakin setup for my 12a with this supercharger ??

Rutnick

The didn't have an intercooler for the first couple of years but did later.

Stock...the XR4TI made less than 175 without the intercooler.