fitzwarryne

Over recent times the Gen 1 Forum has been cluttered up with threads about hybred cars, that is Gen 1 cars who have been extensively modified with Gen 2 and 3 engines and other components. They are no longer original.

Ethically are they still Gen 1 cars, or are they the same category as dropping a V8 into a RX-7 or a rotary into a MGB?

To make life easier for everyone, I suggest a sub forum be started for threads on Gen ! bodies in which latter engines have been installed. This would make simple the task of looking for for that most common thread, how easy is it to install a 13BT in my Gen 1.

ChunkyMonkey

iTrader: (1)

I think they are still gen 1 cars if they have a rotary....It's just an engine upgrade. Look at the folks who have 60's mustangs but run a bigger motor. It's still a mustang. I do agree a sub forum would be nice though. I've actually already ordered my turbo S5 motor and think a section would be beneficial. But to say my car is no longer a first gen is stupid.

mortenf

What would that make my car then? A REPU or a RX5, since it has a 13B 4port? No, i say keep it as it is now!

hammmy

Seems like you start getting into a situation where you'd want a subforum for 12As, -SEs, 13B 4-ports, TIIs, . . .

Besides, it's not like transplants and swap threads are what clutter up the forum. Threads like, "Can a RX-7 drift better than my mom's Subaru Forester?" are what do that.

MosesX605

Exactly. There is no reason to split up the 1st Gen section into subforms based upon mods, because it would become hopelessly complex and divide up a fairly quiet forum into several dead forums. The only 'clutter' posts are those that are offtopic, which are fairly rare here. I think the mods of this board do a decent job of striking a balance between offtopic and tech posts.

Supper

because generally the offtopic posts get sent to the lounge to be raped.

Speaking of swaps, who thinks it would be awesome to swap a 12a into a streetbike?

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I do.

peejay

An engine swap is *not* extensive modification.

If you're worrying about originality, you should also request for a second "Bastardizing the Car: Removing the 'Rats Nest'" and a third "Converting to GSL-SE Suspension so you can put 20's on it" subforum.

lovintha7

I saw a beamer bike with a 13B-REW mounted in the sidecar. The rad was at the bottom. Stupid fast though. The guy who drives it is probly dead now.

fitzwarryne

Peejay- I used the term 'extensive modification' for an engine transplant as that is a term used by many road traffic authorities when the new engine is different to the makers' specifications. Frequently they require engineers' reports to show the vehicle is roadworthy in terms of steering, brakes, pollution and noise.

In Australia for example, a 12A to 13BT swap can be very difficult to get a compliance certificate, especially for an earlier model Gen 1.

A recent sad case was an enthusiast spent US$17,000 on a Gen 1 for engine and suspension modifications and failed to get a roadworthy certificate. He is having difficulties in selling the car for half of what it cost him in total a few weeks months earlier.

cosmicbang

Surely you are joking?

peejay

Sorry to hear that. They generally don't give a crap here, maybe in a few locations they do a sniffer test every once in a while but that's about it.

Engine swaps in 1st-gens are generally bolt-in affairs. It's a bit of a stretch to term it "extensive modification" because a lot of times you don't even have to cut and section sheetmetal, or relocate/eliminate the strut towers, or the like.

Mmmm... eliminated strut towers... perfect for that long stack independent runner manifold idea I keep having.

fitzwarryne

Peejay- Typical wording of an Australian vehicle registration form

' Has the fuel system, engine management system, or engine been modified from the Original manufacturer's specification ?
Have after market components been fitted?
Is the engine turbocharged?

If you have answered "Yes" to any of the above questions please provide details overleaf.'

Other than for a minor change you are called up to take the vehicle to a government testing station where they delight in knocking back 'hotrods'.

Just changing from a Nikki to a Webber carb has to be declared!

When you are in an accident, if the insurance assessor sees any modification not declared they can knock back your claim and you could be up for the repair cost for everyone. The worst case I personally know about was someone had an undeclared mod, lost control on a wet road corner, and hit a house. Everything went up in smoke and he was liable for $800,000 costs. He lost his own house to pay for it.

steve84GS TII

Heh,heh.....In the US,many states require you to pass a vehicle safety inspection where they look for unsafe modifications,defects,rust,ect.They might be concered about an engine swap if done poorly,but for the most part its not an issue.
Here in California,there is no safety inspection of any kind.You can drive the biggest piece of **** on the planet and if the cops dont pull you over,its totally legal.The CA gov. is more concerned with smog outout of cars than road worthiness.If the engine passes smog testing,you can damn near swap anything into your car.There are a few basic rules governing engine swaps,but for the most part your free to put as powerful an engine as you want,into almost any car.If you can get one of these,your completely legal and clear.........notice the lack of any mention of turbocharging, which is great for insurance savings!!

hammmy

I guess I don't see where "1st Generation Specific" means stock and unmolested collector chat.

fitzwarryne

Hammy- You did not read my suggestion correctly. It was for a sub forum of 1st Generation Specific for threads concerning 2nd Generation engine installation and tuning in a Gen1.

The main Forum would continue to deal with modifications such as adding a Rotary Shack turbo to a 12A, wide body kits, and suspension upgrades. It would in no way be restricted to threads on stock autos. One problem now, for example, is if you do a search for installing a turbo on to a 12A you end up with a whole stack of threads on 13BT turbos.

I am not a fan of those car clubs which rate their members' vehicles according to their originality. I love early Fords but hate the way proud owners load them up with every option in the book, to me there not original inspite of only having original parts- but they score points in a contest. I enjoy membership of a RX club which rates members' cars on their merit. I doubt if there are two identical cars in the club but everyone equally enjoys the rotary spirit.

hammmy

No, I think I read the suggestion correctly. My own response was that doing so would lead to requests to expand to other subforums.

For instance, you seem to think that 12AT and aftermarket turbo installations for 12As are a useful part of the current 1st Gen forum, and should stay. Let's say for the sake of argument that I disagree; I would now want a separate 12AT forum on the grounds that it's unfair that this particular turbo interest group should continue to post under the general 1st Gen forum while the 13BT interest group is supposed to post in their subforum. Are we both right? What if a third person wanted a subforum for GSL-SE aftermarket turbo installations? If you were to agree to all, I would counter (again, for the sake of argument) that you are trying to enforce a purist agenda on the forum.

You suggest a subforum would clarify 12A turbo searches, and that currently 12AT threads are choked with 13BT information. Well, that's just human nature to post extraneous information, and a subforum would not clean that up. If I were to post a thread right now asking, "How do I install a turbo on my 12A?" someone would almost certainly post that I should forget that stupid POS blowthrough, and get a 13BT instead. Then the thread would likely devolve into another 13BT discussion. There's really no helping that, because the 13BT is superior to the 12AT in performance, and is widely held by this forum to be the better choice when considering a performance upgrade. Anyone who would want to persist in installing a 12AT would have to have reasons other than the usual (e.g., better performance vs. cost), and would then have to filter through the dross threads to find the gold nuggets.

Having said all this, I readily admit that I am biased on the subject. I am intending to perform a 13BT swap myself, and I enjoy seeing threads on the subject.

fitzwarryne

Hammy- I will also admit my potential bias, I believe the GT-X with the 12AT engine was by far the best Gen 1 produced. Its a great pity the US never got that model.

In stock form it could do a 15.4 second 1/4mile and yet had a fuel consumption of 13km a litre. Just adding an intercooler and tweaking the boost can get you 230-240hp. That's all I need for a daily driver.

OK, if I wanted competition level straight line performance then I would go Second gen13BT with its bigger capacity and stronger box. I would just go for a standard 10 second package from a tuner and think the US $14,000 cost worth while. Ultimately, I suggest a large turboed dowelled Gen 3 engine and a Supra box with a stronger rear end would be fun.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

The 1st gen section is best the way it is. The format works and I'm happy with it.

I don't have a 1st gen but this section is so good that I post here quite often. I just posted a bunch of pictures here of a 4 port 13B project that I'm going to install into my REPU. Why not post in the other rotaries section? Because 4 port 13Bs are quite popular in 1st gens and the info I posted is of great benefit to others in this section. No need for several subforums.

Supper

yeah, that thing was insane. But I mean a 12a straight into the frame of a streetbike, those big *** yamahas have a wide enough frame my 12a could fit in with no change of stance.

I personally think that would just be bad ***, not to mention all the costs...