lemonade

i have heard that you can't do this, is that true? if you can use a setup up like this, what options do you have. what kind of power can you get? i'd like to know if i can streetport the main ports, and the 5th and 6th, but use pinaple racing sleeves, with that metal insert. if it would work, it would make decent torque and gas milage unless i really got on it.

toxic_d

look on the no pistons site for judgeito... he has done wonderous things with 6 ports...

lemonade

absolutly nothing

84stock

iTrader: (5)

If I wanted a "great" street n/a 6 port engine I would go with a very aggressive port on my 6 ports with pineapple inserts placed inside "modified" 6 port sleeves (modified to match the opening of the port). I would even consider bridging the 5&6 ports with matching work done the sleeves. I would have the 6 port actuators run off my air pump so I could "dial" in when to have them activate, tune them done for feul economy and daily driving and have them come in sooner for weekend cruising, someone with the right talent could run a cable to operate this from inside the car even. You'd get driveability since the small ports would see only minor work, and you could dial in the 5&6 ports where you want them. Check out the pic of my stock ports with the template overlay on top. I would also hog out the exhasut as well and run a RB header.

84stock

iTrader: (5)

Also, I would run SE internals and heavy flywheel to maintain the low/midrange torque of the engine.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

dont mean to highjack but when you say dial the 5th and 6th ports how is that done, is there a wirte up on it as far as a how to and everything

Blake

6-port engines have a great deal of potential with porting, contrary to what some think. Obviously, the Secondary side is limited to altering IO (Intake Opening) timing modification, unless you are doing something really radical. Primary ports are very small and can be opened up quite a bit with good effect, both IO and IC timing.

To give you a better understanding of how much the primaries can be opened up, here is a picture of a "rally" streetport I did on one about 5 years ago:




On the secondary side, this is what I did:





As you will note, I used Teflon in the Auxilairy ports...that's because our 6-port inserts had not been developed yet. In fact, it was the sucess of this engine that prompted Rob Golden and I to develop the CNC'd 6-port inserts for the stock sleeves. I never got any dyno numbers on this engine, but it did run the 1/4 mile in the mid-14 second range with a completely stock EFI system, cone filter and the stock exhaust manifold, stock cat-back and a cat replacement pipe...while falling on its face from lack of fuel at mid-track.

The porting shown above is not emissions-legal due to all the overlap induced by advancing the IO timing combined with the exhaust porting, but it was immensely streetable...I drove the car 4,000 miles to Florida for a race. If emissions is a concern, then you have to be careful about increasing overlap. That still gives you room to improve on the Primary ports, by retarding the IC timing. I'm not a huge fan of retarding Auxiliary port IC timing. Mazda did that with the 2nd gens because of the highly tuned intake manifold and plenum that helped cram additional A/F mixture into the chamber beyond the point of contraction. It's great if you have the whole system, but if not you can get a lot of reversion. Obviously, there are too many variables to make that absolute, but in general I'm happy keeping the stock IC timing on the auxiliary ports of a S3 engine.

Blake

BTW, the term "rally street port" refers to a maximum effort streetport; the earliest IO timing possible without a bridge to support the corner seals. In fact, with this port, the corner seals are only half-supported. With a bridge port, the main ports would actually have to be smaller, to leave room for a bridge. It's called a rally port because that was the typical application.

Rotor13B

How was longevity on this engine?

Blake

The transmission snapped durring the drag race in Florida, on about the 6th or 7th pass. Wouldn't have been a big deal except for the fact I was at Orlando Speed World, 4,000 miles from home, in my only mode of transportation, 50 miles from the hotel, on a Friday, at 5pm...Superbowl weekend, with the Superbowl taking place in Tampa. No rental cars within 100 miles. Had to hitch a ride to the hotel and sold the car the next day for airfare home, as I had to get back to work ASAP. At least, I flew 1st class. It was a feature article in Grassroots Motorsports magazine back in 2001. The guy I sold the car to ran the engine in the following two years, so I guess it lasted fine. No reason to think it wouldn't...if I made a mistake with the port timing the corner seals would have fallen out on the first crank. The following year I built a peripheral port 13B 1st gen.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

you wouldnt happen to have some temp plates for this port job by chance that you would be willing to part with or make a copy of???

Whizbang

ditto

Blake

No, actually. Rob Golden taught me to lay out a port job based on my objectives (IO/IC timing, crossectional area, "lift", etc.), rather than rely on someone elses guesswork. I never bothered to make a template because the engine was unproven at that point. I would have made one after the first tear-down, but the car was sold first and the engine resides in Florida.

As I told someone whe PM'd me, I did write an article on porting for New Zealand Performance Review several years ago (I used this 6-port engine for many of the illustrations). I think I still have a PDF copy of the article on my harddrive. If I can find it, I will post it here. No real secrets, but it covers some of the basic considerations.

Blake

Here is the link to my New Zealand Performance Review article. Nothing special...just an introduction to porting terminology and objectives.

http://rx-sevenandahalf.com/misc/por...PR-article.pdf

--
Blake Qualley

1984special

Sweet man, thanks for the article.

3rd and final 7

iTrader: (9)

awesome thanks man