Ta-Aikah

Getting everything back together after replacing front bearings and rebuilding brakes. Checking play again after reinstalling the wheels. Bearing play is all good.

The car is on jack stands and the front is at full droop, but there's slack in the passenger side spring. I can reach up in there and jiggle the spring around quite a bit.

Everything's tight up top, as far as I can tell. Not sure where this slack is coming from. The slop in the video is shown by grabbing and lifting the tire. Any ideas?

A video of the slop:

My idler arm bushings are also totally shot. I know the Moog replacement is a great upgrade but is it a significant enough upgrade at $70 vs the $10 it would cost for bushings? Is it really that good?

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

Yes, you will never have to mess with bushings again and it can be greased.

Do you have lowering springs? I have cut RB springs and they do this. Stock shouldn't.

Ta-Aikah

I couldn't tell you one way or the other if these springs are aftermarket or not. They're stock as far as I know.

The driver side doesn't do this. The springs seem to be the same.

The passenger side saw some sort of front-end collision at one point. Maybe something isn't quite right still.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i like to just replace the bushings its cheap, and you can do it from the top without even lifting the car, its really easy.

for your spring deal, you'll have to pull it apart and look, the specs are in the FSM

Ta-Aikah

Looks like I'm going to have to totally disassemble, either way, so going all in for the Moog upgrade would make sense.

Ta-Aikah

Measured the lengths of the springs at full droop. Driver's side is all good at spec in Haynes manual, but passenger side is about 30mm short of spec.

Well, crap.

Toruki

Is it possible you switched the driver side passenger side springs? Driver side compresses more over the decades.

Not a fix, but an explanation, maybe.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

huh? to change the bushing is literally
1. open hood
2. look down, remove cotter pin and big nut
3. push idler down
4. replace bushings
5. pull idler up
6. e-install nut and cotter pin

done!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the springs weren't the same length to start with, although 30mm is too much

Ta-Aikah

I haven't had the front suspension apart. Maybe a previous owner did, I doubt this would be the cause of the 30mm discrepancy though.

I'm thinking the accident/collision on the passenger side is what squished the spring.

I get that the bushings are easy to do, but the idea of never having to deal with those bushings again sounds pretty alluring.

swbtm

iTrader: (2)

You could try and place a jack directly under the strut tube and raise it until just before you start to lift the car off the jack stands. Then try and turn the wheel left and right by hand. Assuming your jack has a rotating head, that would give a feel for the drag between the upper bearing and the lower assembly.

The 30mm you describe could occur if the large thick washer that is supposed to be sandwiched between the upper bearing and the spring hat is not there. That would allow the spring hat to collapse up into the upper mount. It should be really difficult to turn the wheel left and right by hand. You should also be able to visually see a difference between drivers and passenger side if this is the case. I almost put mine back together without those washers... so it is possible. The washer transfers the load from the spring hat to the inner race so the bearing in the top hat is doing the work. Otherwise, the spring hat could just rub on the outer race or something else. I have some stock springs that are untouched and in decent shape if you want something for comparison. There was zero slop at full drop, but only about half an inch to an inch of compression once then nut was removed.

Ta-Aikah

The thing is the spring has room to expand up and down with the wheel at full droop. The spring itself is 30mm short.

Just turning the wheel by hand isn't any more difficult than the other side is.

Maxwedge

iTrader: (1)

I think unless you take both sides apart you won't know. Your springs should be the same length (roughly) so where is that 30mm difference? Is a control arm damaged? Is the inner fenderwell in the engine bay damaged anywhere? Signs of repair? Maybe someone just cut one of the springs and not the other? Maybe they mixed up 2 sets and one was lowered an inch. I just sold some front springs to my brother. One of his workers has an FB and cut the WRONG end of the front springs, so they flopped around on the spring perches.

something is wrong, and you can either figure it out or just not mind it. I have a full set of zero mile RB springs going up for sale soon.

Ta-Aikah

The springs are supposed to be pretty close to the same length. The driver side measures 325mm and the passenger measures 290mm; ~30-35mm below spec. The slop is in the spring. The spring has been overcompressed by 30mm.

There was damage to this side but it was all repaired over time by the previous owners, minus this spring it seems.

Since the spring is the issue, I am mighty interested in this set of RB springs you have.

injuhneer

Installl the bushings dry or is there a particular lube to use on the idler arm shaft?

I ask because the replacement bushings appear to be a resin/plastic. There doesn't appear to be any embedded lubricant in them (like moly or some such). They look like the nylon used on chain guides. Anyway if assembled dry the bushing would likely gall. Wrong lube will cause them to deteriorate.

For now I'll use the replacement Beck-Arnley replacements I have on hand but am thinking about conversion to a metal bushing or possibly a MDS nylon.

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

the moog replacement is best. i did the bushings my first time trying to go the cheap way out and they don't last. then went with the moog idler. haven't had to touch it since. moog part # is K9369.

injuhneer

The answer is: Lithium Grease.

injuhneer

Has this been a chronic issue with the idler from the beginning or is it just the replacement parts?

I have the means to make my own bushings from better materials or to convert it to roller bearings.

Anyone taken a Moog unit apart to see what is inside? I noticed that those units are different in several ways.

Ta-Aikah

As far as my own experience and what I've read on the forum the bushings just don't last due to the heat from the exhaust manifold/header.

injuhneer

I believe it may even be simpler. Indeed the heat cycling will accelerate the process. I installed the common bushings (Beck-Arnley parts). They required a considerable amount of force to be pressed in. I understand the intent is to create a tight fit but it is clear that these replacement parts are not quite right. I understand that the oversize of the bushing is to require a press fit and the taper is to compress the bushings inward resulting in a close fit to the idler arm shaft. That is all well and good but either the fitment is wrong (incorrect dimensions) or the plastic is the wrong type.

After being pressed in and the nut on the shaft torque set to 35 ft-lb the bushing flanges on each end have developed fractures; this from just sitting overnight. No heat. No force other than the nut on the shaft. This implies that the plastic currently used for these bushings does not have the correct elasticity/deformation properties or that the fitment is beyond those limits. Given that the bushings are already fractured in the flange the cracks will spread and cause failure. Add heat and the process accelerates.

To make matters worse after torque set on the nut the resulting rotating torque required to move the arm was more than 40 fl-lb. The factory spec is 4.4-13.2 ft-lb.

It was a cheap experiment.

Maxwedge

iTrader: (1)

What he said ^^^

injuhneer

Yes. Wisdom of the ages.

injuhneer

Lucky me. Moog part wasn't readily available so I made new bushings (that actually fit and are of a better material: MDS nylon).

All fixed.

GSLSEforme

Moog for the(permanent) win!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the Mazda bushings are some kind of plastic, and they seem to last a couple decades.

its been my experience that aftermarket replacement parts for these cars don't work, in fact back in the day you used to be able to buy a dead car, replace all the non-genuine parts and have a good running car.