Dave.Martin2008

I this winter I have noticed the starter bendix not kicking the gear out properly. But when I test the starter on the bench it works fine so I noticed that the bendix is ground circuit controlled and the starter motor is positive controlled. I am thinking a duel push button starter mod. One for the bendix and one for the starter motor. Any thoughts on this.

dbragg

iTrader: (7)

Are you sure you don't just need to improve the car's grounding system? This is a very common issue, and easier to fix than a dual push button system.

Dave.Martin2008

That's possible. And I will look into it more I just pulled the starter at noon today haven't looked too far into it yet. But the started button thing sound cool and a bit fun to modify though.

crazycarl

iTrader: (1)

I second making sure the grounds are up to par. Used to have starter problems and they have since gone away after re-doing all the grounds.

Dave.Martin2008

That's what I am working on tonight. I really am thinking about a push button system for the starter though.

Dave.Martin2008

That is what I will be doing tonight. But the push button start has me thinking. You would need a split push button but the ground circuit must connect first to kick the bendix out and then put power to the starter motor. I think I will be searching the web for such a type of push button.

Dave.Martin2008

Cleaned bendix and starter up and used silicone lubrication spray on bendix arm. Cleaned starter gear shaft and starter kicks in every time now. Also cleaned term ends on starter and wires. I will run it like this for a while to see of that was the problem. If not I have a spool of zero gage wire to install that should be enough ground for this beast.

andernamen

iTrader: (2)

Hey Dave, since you just did this, can you tell me exactly which bolt the negative lead is supposed to go? The shorter bolt or longer bolt that goes through from the engine side?

Dave.Martin2008

The negotiable lead is the spade connector on the bendix solenoid. You should have 3 wires going to the starter. One from the battery one positive wire from the ignition and one ground wire from the ignition. Looking from the rear of the starter housing and the solenoid on the top going left to right... Battery cable lead then in the middle and up from that is a spade terminal that's the negative lead and the next is the other bolt and nut style that is the positive lead from the ignition. Hope this helps. I will grab a photo if you need it and label it for you tonight when I get off work.

andernamen

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, still confused. Photo would be awesome if not too much trouble. Thanks a bunch.

Dave.Martin2008

Yeah give me a 30 min. I have to go back out the garage and take a picture.

Dave.Martin2008

here you go...

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Um, that looks very wrong to me. The "spade" as you call it is actually a 1/4" male quick disconnect terminal and it connects to your ignition switch. This terminal is only powered when the key is in the START position. Where did you get that it is a negative terminal?

Or to put it another way, see if this rings any bells. It is your solenoid activation terminal. It causes the solenoid to activate and pulls magnetically on a lever accomplishing two things at once.

#1 it pushes the starter gear out to mesh with the flywheel ring gear.

By the way, Bendix is actually a brand name and not really the name of a part inside your starter, but I understand how brand names can stick around like that. Ever Xeroxd anything? I never have. But I have made copies before. And I'm sure you can come up with all kinds of examples but that takes away from this thread so...

#2 it makes an electrical connection thus connecting your thick battery cable through the solenoid and out to the copper braided cable leading into the starter's main body, or the field coils if you will.

There should never be anything else connected to the terminal with the copper braid except for the hot start assist wire, which you probably don't have anymore.

By the way I'm not trying to make fun of you. If you took it as such, well I guess that's what you needed to experience today, and for that, glad I could help. Otherwise all I see here is someone struggling to understand something and I felt I could help out in my own unique way. Oh also both of you guys have big blue rotors in your avatars. Makes you two hard to distingush from one another. You're both in here about starters too, which as you can understand, doesn't help. You don't have to change on my account, which I assume would be obvious, but I'm mentioning it anyway because these days you never know. I blame social media. lol

Dave.Martin2008

Jeff I never thought anything of it when I read your post unless now I am starting to think you may have been having a laugh at me LOL anyway. I don't ever take things in bad light, anything I can learn from others is good enough for me.
I do have a hot assist wire hooked up to mine and there is a black wire hooked to my 1/4" connector or spade terminal we have always called them a spade because of the shape of them, but that is just like the dizzy A.K.A. cap and rotor... but anyway. when I had the starter on the bench I assumed that the 1/4 connector was a - input because when I gave that terminal ground the solenoid activated and kicked the gear out, then I put positive to the stud with the braid on it and it turned the starter, So I had assumed that was what was fed to them from the car I never went and tested the lead on the car to see what the output of them was... also I will be changing my avatar soon as my car is almost ready for paint. I hope to have it painted mid Feb. I didn't even notice the blue rotors in both avatars LoL

Dave.Martin2008

LMAO ok SmartA** it took me a second read to catch the Xerox comment very funny. I still don't see that as making fun of me but good point.

andernamen

iTrader: (2)

The cable I am concerned with is black with a yellow stripe and is connected to ONE of the bolts that holds the starter to the transmission housing. I am just not sure which one. The spade connector and the wire that connects to the solenoid are no problem.

Dave.Martin2008

ok I didn't want to give anyone misinformation, so here is a new rendering of the photo and I have deleted the other...

Dave.Martin2008

the big black wire with the yellow stripe is the ground wire that runs from the neg battery term. to the engine block you should bolt it to the bolt that goes through the trans and engine block and then bolt the starter up with its own bolts. that is how it was done factory on mine.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Yes! That picture is correct. It's actually pretty good. Archive worthy.

andernamen

iTrader: (2)

Got my "New" remanufactured Advance Auto starter installed. Turned the key over and....nothing. The starter motor doesn't turn over and it kinda sounded like it was locking up. The engine turns freely so I'm thinking it must we a wiring issue. Other than that, are there any relays that might cause the starter not to spin?

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

Sometimes the starter can get jammed up with the flywheel. To check, unbolt the starter from the trans and keep the car wiring attached. Bump the key to see if the starter turn. If this works the wiring is correct.

If the starter is still not rotating, try checking your 12v trigger with a multiple meter.

Dave.Martin2008

Make sure you ground the starter housing of it will do nothing at all hanging there all by itself. I have fiddled with mine also and found that intermittently the black 1/4" quick disconnect wire for the solenoid is not getting power this not pushing the gear into the flywheel I have decided to just install a push button start and forgo chasing down the bad connection or possibly bad ignition switch. But now that I think of it I do have another switch sitting here. I will try that first if no good in goes a push button.

andernamen

iTrader: (2)

It was the battery connection, the new starter is SWEET. Spins the motor like a starter should! The old one was slow.

Dave.Martin2008

I installed 1/0 ground cable to engine block, cleaned connections and installed a new power cable 1/0 to the starter no luck. Found out it was the starter drive slipping that was the cause. Went through my other starter and cleaned everything. And installing it today. Hope this takes car of the no crank in cold weather.

NativeBeggars

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to revive an old thread. I want to start with the spade connector. It's called the EXCITE WIRE. I am experiencing a similar issue still and it is keeping my 7 off the road. I have tested the starter on a bench, by itself with a jump box and they both work. I am growing more proficient with a dmm, so where should I test the wiring for this issue? I have run a second ground to the frame from the bolt where the other ground goes, no dice. The starter kicks hard when I hook it up to a jump box and bridge power to excite but haven't tested that operation on the car unbolted from the bellhousing. I am leaning to just running a push button but you guys seem to be solving your issues without. All I get when I hit the key is fuel pump whirring.