SPY PHOTOS! new carb kit that promises 40+mpg!!
01-29-09, 03:11 AM
#51
I would like to know if the test vehicles are those with completely stock engines with the emissions still intact including the catalytic converters or are they ones with no emissions hooked up and no cats running a header system?
Also is the mileage a combination of City/ highway or all Highway driving?
Also is the mileage a combination of City/ highway or all Highway driving?
01-29-09, 03:21 AM
#52
Sorry to burst your bubble but I have achieved 33.5 MPG many times in my SE on documented trips of 160 miles one way. In the summertime I got 30 MPG on a regular basis on even shorter highway trips and averaged 27-28 MPG on my combination driving of City/Highway. I have an advantage being at a higher altitude here in Central Oregon but also achieved 27.1 MPG when I was still in CA.
There are other members with 12a engines that have gotten over 30 MPG.
So your BS statement has been busted! :-)
There are other members with 12a engines that have gotten over 30 MPG.
So your BS statement has been busted! :-)
I never read so much B.S. in my life. I have owned a lot of rotary powered Mazdas since 1979, including 7 of the 1st gen RX7s. The only one I had that ever got over 20 mpg was my SE, which once got 23 on a carefully measured highway trip. The most knowledgeable rotary mechanics I know say that high 20s mileage is possible under test conditions, but not likely in normal daily driving.
The fundamental problem with the rotary has nothing to do with the carburetion - it is the inherent characteristics of the combustion cycle. Mazda spent a lot of time and money developing a very sophisticated laboratory engine, with lots of exotic light weight parts and extreme measures to reduce friction, and they got, by their own statements, combustion efficiency within 10% of comparable piston engines. But that was before the VTEC revolution raised the bar.
If this new carb setup or any other intake system is measured at anything over 30 mpg in the real world on a rotary powered RX-7, you need to find out what is wrong with your measurements.
As for Fram oil filters, I have used them since 1957, and never had a problem, although I have had problems when I tried other brands.
The fundamental problem with the rotary has nothing to do with the carburetion - it is the inherent characteristics of the combustion cycle. Mazda spent a lot of time and money developing a very sophisticated laboratory engine, with lots of exotic light weight parts and extreme measures to reduce friction, and they got, by their own statements, combustion efficiency within 10% of comparable piston engines. But that was before the VTEC revolution raised the bar.
If this new carb setup or any other intake system is measured at anything over 30 mpg in the real world on a rotary powered RX-7, you need to find out what is wrong with your measurements.
As for Fram oil filters, I have used them since 1957, and never had a problem, although I have had problems when I tried other brands.
01-29-09, 05:57 AM
#53
Why is this considered revolutionary? The only thing you can do with a car to improve mileage is lean out the A/F mixture? This could be done with any carb IMO? You just need to adjust the high speed air bleeds and jetting and power valves? (at least this is what I'd do with a holley, I don't have exp modding a nikki)
I'm still using a nikki myself. Full header no cats/emissions. I get 17 MPG city and around 23-24 highway. Back before I removed all the emissions equipment and the car was still factory orig. I netted 26mpg on the drive home from St, louis MO to wichita KS. So it seems removing all the emissions equip. actually hurt my MPG?
I haven't spent the $ on WB02 but I'd think just setting up an OEM nikki to run super lean in cruise mode would do the same thing? This way you wouldn't sacrifice the advantages of a 4bbl carb.
Am I wrong here carb guys?
IMO I think money would be better spent on a WB02 and some tinkering.
I'd do it my self. but for the small 3-5mpg savings I'd gain, it'd take me like 10 years to pay off the wb02!
I'm still using a nikki myself. Full header no cats/emissions. I get 17 MPG city and around 23-24 highway. Back before I removed all the emissions equipment and the car was still factory orig. I netted 26mpg on the drive home from St, louis MO to wichita KS. So it seems removing all the emissions equip. actually hurt my MPG?
I haven't spent the $ on WB02 but I'd think just setting up an OEM nikki to run super lean in cruise mode would do the same thing? This way you wouldn't sacrifice the advantages of a 4bbl carb.
Am I wrong here carb guys?
IMO I think money would be better spent on a WB02 and some tinkering.
I'd do it my self. but for the small 3-5mpg savings I'd gain, it'd take me like 10 years to pay off the wb02!
01-29-09, 07:14 AM
#54
Well I routinely get 23-24 mpg for my daily driving with a stock Nikki, I just filled up yesterday after the trip meter clicked over 360 miles, it took 15 gallons so that's 24 mpg, not bad for a 25 year old car and better than most American cars being produced today. A couple times I've stretched it out to 400 miles on a single tank.
But I'd always be interested in better mpg, has anybody done any tests with the secondaries disabled on a stock Nikki, making it a two barrel? If this makes a significant difference in mileage without compromising the performance we expect as individuals (I really don't depend on the secondaries that much) it would be a free mod that would make money, you don't see many of those.
And what would the real savings and performance be from one of these little one barrels? In other words, how many miles would you have to drive to pay for the carb? Some real information from people who have tried it would be nice, we already have plenty of opinions from folks who haven't.
But I'd always be interested in better mpg, has anybody done any tests with the secondaries disabled on a stock Nikki, making it a two barrel? If this makes a significant difference in mileage without compromising the performance we expect as individuals (I really don't depend on the secondaries that much) it would be a free mod that would make money, you don't see many of those.
And what would the real savings and performance be from one of these little one barrels? In other words, how many miles would you have to drive to pay for the carb? Some real information from people who have tried it would be nice, we already have plenty of opinions from folks who haven't.
01-29-09, 08:19 AM
#55
Well I routinely get 23-24 mpg for my daily driving with a stock Nikki, I just filled up yesterday after the trip meter clicked over 360 miles, it took 15 gallons so that's 24 mpg, not bad for a 25 year old car and better than most American cars being produced today. A couple times I've stretched it out to 400 miles on a single tank.
But I'd always be interested in better mpg, has anybody done any tests with the secondaries disabled on a stock Nikki, making it a two barrel? If this makes a significant difference in mileage without compromising the performance we expect as individuals (I really don't depend on the secondaries that much) it would be a free mod that would make money, you don't see many of those.
And what would the real savings and performance be from one of these little one barrels? In other words, how many miles would you have to drive to pay for the carb? Some real information from people who have tried it would be nice, we already have plenty of opinions from folks who haven't.
But I'd always be interested in better mpg, has anybody done any tests with the secondaries disabled on a stock Nikki, making it a two barrel? If this makes a significant difference in mileage without compromising the performance we expect as individuals (I really don't depend on the secondaries that much) it would be a free mod that would make money, you don't see many of those.
And what would the real savings and performance be from one of these little one barrels? In other words, how many miles would you have to drive to pay for the carb? Some real information from people who have tried it would be nice, we already have plenty of opinions from folks who haven't.
But I don't see why you couldn't rig new Vac passage to the secondarys and run a WOT solenoid. This would disable the secondarys unless you were fully WOT.
01-29-09, 08:47 AM
#56
i have gottened between 23-28 mpg (not exact measurements), i have mechanical secondaries, no emissions, and 2gdfis. but in this little *** town it's mostly hwy driving (speeds over 45, the ocassional 35) that's counting the ocasional redline to keep the carbon away lol. (hardly get on the secondaries at all).
what really kills me sometimes is the first start up. even with 2gdfis, it warms up faster and fires right up (no choke) but i still spend most of the gas doing so lol.
even if this carb doesn't give 40mpg if it can get rid of major warm-up time it'll be great...that's the way i see it, personally i have no use for it yet. maybe if i get a second first gen i would do it to have a better dd and that way i can use most of the gas money into building a modest weekend/track car
what really kills me sometimes is the first start up. even with 2gdfis, it warms up faster and fires right up (no choke) but i still spend most of the gas doing so lol.
even if this carb doesn't give 40mpg if it can get rid of major warm-up time it'll be great...that's the way i see it, personally i have no use for it yet. maybe if i get a second first gen i would do it to have a better dd and that way i can use most of the gas money into building a modest weekend/track car
01-29-09, 12:11 PM
#58
Nikki-Modder Rex-Rodder
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Trying to convince some clown not to put a Holley 600 on his 12a.
Posts: 2,890
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
6 Posts
Someone said they turned their gasket around and cut off the secondary prompt in their Nikki.
This is false.
Although part of the vacuum prompt circuit does follow a channel along the bottom of the main body casting, it snakes around the secondary venturi and back up to the side of the carb where the box is.
The circuit doesn't go through the throttle body at all.
The easiest way to keep the Nikki secondaries from coming on is to disconnect the link on the vacuum box lever. But if you want to experiment with timing the secondaries, ie- raising or lowering the vacuum necessary to pull them open, play with the vacuum diaphragm spring.
I don't know of any source off-hand, but if you can yank the spring and find a similar sized assortment of different rates, you're golden.
You would have to adjust your AP to make sure it covers the transition if you make them come on later.
40 MPG on a rotary is not all that difficult. Making that streetable is difficult. But I suspect this carb is just like switching from vac-secs to mec-secs, or from a 4 bbl to a 2 bbl- In order to get the most out of the carb, the driver has to lear a new driving technique.
As a carb guy, I'd love to see this project materialize.
This is false.
Although part of the vacuum prompt circuit does follow a channel along the bottom of the main body casting, it snakes around the secondary venturi and back up to the side of the carb where the box is.
The circuit doesn't go through the throttle body at all.
The easiest way to keep the Nikki secondaries from coming on is to disconnect the link on the vacuum box lever. But if you want to experiment with timing the secondaries, ie- raising or lowering the vacuum necessary to pull them open, play with the vacuum diaphragm spring.
I don't know of any source off-hand, but if you can yank the spring and find a similar sized assortment of different rates, you're golden.
You would have to adjust your AP to make sure it covers the transition if you make them come on later.
40 MPG on a rotary is not all that difficult. Making that streetable is difficult. But I suspect this carb is just like switching from vac-secs to mec-secs, or from a 4 bbl to a 2 bbl- In order to get the most out of the carb, the driver has to lear a new driving technique.
As a carb guy, I'd love to see this project materialize.
01-29-09, 02:42 PM
#60
Someone said they turned their gasket around and cut off the secondary prompt in their Nikki.
This is false.
Although part of the vacuum prompt circuit does follow a channel along the bottom of "the main body casting, it snakes around the secondary venturi and back up to the side of the carb where the box is.
The circuit doesn't go through the throttle body at all.
The easiest way to keep the Nikki secondaries from coming on is to disconnect the link on the vacuum box lever. But if you want to experiment with timing the secondaries, ie- raising or lowering the vacuum necessary to pull them open, play with the vacuum diaphragm spring.
I don't know of any source off-hand, but if you can yank the spring and find a similar sized assortment of different rates, you're golden.
You would have to adjust your AP to make sure it covers the transition if you make them come on later.
40 MPG on a rotary is not all that difficult. Making that streetable is difficult. But I suspect this carb is just like switching from vac-secs to mec-secs, or from a 4 bbl to a 2 bbl- In order to get the most out of the carb, the driver has to lear a new driving technique.
As a carb guy, I'd love to see this project materialize."
Thanks for the info Dennis! I'll mess around with some of these things when I have some time over the summer.
This is false.
Although part of the vacuum prompt circuit does follow a channel along the bottom of "the main body casting, it snakes around the secondary venturi and back up to the side of the carb where the box is.
The circuit doesn't go through the throttle body at all.
The easiest way to keep the Nikki secondaries from coming on is to disconnect the link on the vacuum box lever. But if you want to experiment with timing the secondaries, ie- raising or lowering the vacuum necessary to pull them open, play with the vacuum diaphragm spring.
I don't know of any source off-hand, but if you can yank the spring and find a similar sized assortment of different rates, you're golden.
You would have to adjust your AP to make sure it covers the transition if you make them come on later.
40 MPG on a rotary is not all that difficult. Making that streetable is difficult. But I suspect this carb is just like switching from vac-secs to mec-secs, or from a 4 bbl to a 2 bbl- In order to get the most out of the carb, the driver has to lear a new driving technique.
As a carb guy, I'd love to see this project materialize."
Thanks for the info Dennis! I'll mess around with some of these things when I have some time over the summer.
01-29-09, 02:54 PM
#61
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Palmdale Ca
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
well, every post of mine gets either deleted or heavily edited by the mods so there is no reason for me to try to continue.. if you want to know more contact the shack directly.
that is not the full bussiness name so it should not be deleted or edited out please
close thread im done!
that is not the full bussiness name so it should not be deleted or edited out please
close thread im done!
01-29-09, 03:05 PM
#62
"Sorry to burst your bubble but I have achieved 33.5 MPG many times in my SE on documented trips of 160 miles one way. In the summertime I got 30 MPG on a regular basis on even shorter highway trips and averaged 27-28 MPG on my combination driving of City/Highway. I have an advantage being at a higher altitude here in Central Oregon but also achieved 27.1 MPG when I was still in CA.
There are other members with 12a engines that have gotten over 30 MPG.
So your BS statement has been busted! :-)"
I would never accuse you of lying or of not knowing how to measure your mileage, because I don't want to get kicked off the forum. I respect your right to post whatever you wish here. But I most certainly don't believe this if your car is driveable in any normal sense of the word.
There are other members with 12a engines that have gotten over 30 MPG.
So your BS statement has been busted! :-)"
I would never accuse you of lying or of not knowing how to measure your mileage, because I don't want to get kicked off the forum. I respect your right to post whatever you wish here. But I most certainly don't believe this if your car is driveable in any normal sense of the word.
01-29-09, 03:41 PM
#63
It is a fully functional car and I am very capable of measuring MPG.
The key is not only the mods that I have done but the way that I drive. The mods are documented in my original thread on the subject of mileage.
The key is not only the mods that I have done but the way that I drive. The mods are documented in my original thread on the subject of mileage.
"Sorry to burst your bubble but I have achieved 33.5 MPG many times in my SE on documented trips of 160 miles one way. In the summertime I got 30 MPG on a regular basis on even shorter highway trips and averaged 27-28 MPG on my combination driving of City/Highway. I have an advantage being at a higher altitude here in Central Oregon but also achieved 27.1 MPG when I was still in CA.
There are other members with 12a engines that have gotten over 30 MPG.
So your BS statement has been busted! :-)"
I would never accuse you of lying or of not knowing how to measure your mileage, because I don't want to get kicked off the forum. I respect your right to post whatever you wish here. But I most certainly don't believe this if your car is driveable in any normal sense of the word.
There are other members with 12a engines that have gotten over 30 MPG.
So your BS statement has been busted! :-)"
I would never accuse you of lying or of not knowing how to measure your mileage, because I don't want to get kicked off the forum. I respect your right to post whatever you wish here. But I most certainly don't believe this if your car is driveable in any normal sense of the word.
01-29-09, 04:15 PM
#64
djessence
01-29-09, 04:55 PM
#66
Slide Or Die
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 1,076
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
in my opinion if i want good gas mileage i will buy a prius. i think there are way better things to spend money on testing. but to each their own . why not convert the rotary into a diesel engine and get even more mileage out of it?
01-29-09, 07:30 PM
#68
Nikki-Modder Rex-Rodder
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Trying to convince some clown not to put a Holley 600 on his 12a.
Posts: 2,890
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
6 Posts
If I could, I would have a kick-*** performance 7 and a bio-diesel 7.
...and one with a blender & flux capacitor.
...and one with a blender & flux capacitor.
01-29-09, 08:04 PM
#69
I think you guys are missing the point of this thread. It is for those who would like to get better fuel economy so that they still can enjoy driving their cars. When fuel goes back up which it will then members that are getting really poor mileage would benefit from something like this.
It's not for all but neither is spending thousands of dollars on a sound system in a car but to each their own. If you don't like the thought of having a economical RX-7 to drive then you are not going to buy something like this.
It's not for all but neither is spending thousands of dollars on a sound system in a car but to each their own. If you don't like the thought of having a economical RX-7 to drive then you are not going to buy something like this.
01-29-09, 08:41 PM
#70
I just like the fact that it is all a direct bolt on. Connect a couple wires and throttle cables and fuel lines. Bolt it right onto the factory LIM and your ready to go! If the kit can be had for less than $400 and it truly does double your fuel economy and has a minimal affect on your drivabilty in the city then by all means.
Just imagine a guy out there with a 40 mile drive to work. That is very common. Imagine if someone is having problems with their Nikki being so old and worn out. This carb setup seems much simpler than a Nikki. Simplicity can make it more reliable. Make it last longer. Easier to maintain.
Just imagine a guy out there with a 40 mile drive to work. That is very common. Imagine if someone is having problems with their Nikki being so old and worn out. This carb setup seems much simpler than a Nikki. Simplicity can make it more reliable. Make it last longer. Easier to maintain.
01-29-09, 09:09 PM
#72
Our cars weigh 2200 pounds, with excellent aerodynamics and suspension. They love 80 mph.
A small throated carb might do just fine, especially for highway cruising like I do on the commute.
I just wish I could try one of this little barrels without having to buy one first.
I think I'll disable my secondaries.
A small throated carb might do just fine, especially for highway cruising like I do on the commute.
I just wish I could try one of this little barrels without having to buy one first.
I think I'll disable my secondaries.
01-29-09, 09:24 PM
#73
I've gotten 17 out of my SP13b w/ 48IDA, but I average 13-14 combined. The best I've ever gotten was just under 30 in my stockport S3-13B w/ free flowing exhaust and a 45 DCOE on long freeway drives at 80mph. I drove 52 miles one way to work for a few months and I could get 22-25 at 60mph and at 80mph I would get much better mileage, but over 80 and it started to drop again. Mind you at cruise afr's were 15.5-16:1.
01-29-09, 10:24 PM
#74
Someone said they turned their gasket around and cut off the secondary prompt in their Nikki.
This is false.
Although part of the vacuum prompt circuit does follow a channel along the bottom of the main body casting, it snakes around the secondary venturi and back up to the side of the carb where the box is.
The circuit doesn't go through the throttle body at all.
This is false.
Although part of the vacuum prompt circuit does follow a channel along the bottom of the main body casting, it snakes around the secondary venturi and back up to the side of the carb where the box is.
The circuit doesn't go through the throttle body at all.