Seats In FB recline when hit from behind?
07-30-07, 01:19 PM
#2
ok just so I get this right, when you hit the back of the seat to attempt to recline it without the release it reclines? Sounds like you got some busted seats to me. Think if you got rearended, you would simply lay back and possibly get hurt worse than if the seat was working properly.
07-30-07, 04:10 PM
#4
Good at "stupid"
Thread Starter
A friend crashed his SE last night and his seat reclined, and he slipped right out the seat belt and out the rear hatch. 
Seat belt was still done up... just want to know if it was some freak thing or if anyone has heard of it happening before. There's so many odd things behind this accident, I just want to try and figure it out for some closure.
Seat belt was still done up... just want to know if it was some freak thing or if anyone has heard of it happening before. There's so many odd things behind this accident, I just want to try and figure it out for some closure.
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07-30-07, 05:52 PM
#8
Was it actually the recline mechanism, or did the seat frame break.
When I posted about my accident, I totally forgot that one time before that I was just driving along..Punched a nice shift into second and it layed me right out on my back.
The seat frame broke right above the recline mechanism... and since the gear that adjusts the seat angle is on just one side, you wouldnt know it was weak or about to break until its too late, and all it takes is the one side.
Think about the abuse a 20 year old seat has taken... depending on the size of the drivers who have used the seat its not hard to imagine basically any seat getting worn out/stressed.... a fault like that is always shown at the worst time.
When I posted about my accident, I totally forgot that one time before that I was just driving along..Punched a nice shift into second and it layed me right out on my back.
The seat frame broke right above the recline mechanism... and since the gear that adjusts the seat angle is on just one side, you wouldnt know it was weak or about to break until its too late, and all it takes is the one side.
Think about the abuse a 20 year old seat has taken... depending on the size of the drivers who have used the seat its not hard to imagine basically any seat getting worn out/stressed.... a fault like that is always shown at the worst time.
07-30-07, 06:04 PM
#9
Good at "stupid"
Thread Starter
He died...
Good point. THe car went into a ditch, and cartwheeled through the air landing with the nose in the air, and the seat reclined and he was projected out the rear hatch. Seatbelt was still intact.
Was it actually the recline mechanism, or did the seat frame break.
Think about the abuse a 20 year old seat has taken... depending on the size of the drivers who have used the seat its not hard to imagine basically any seat getting worn out/stressed.... a fault like that is always shown at the worst time.
Think about the abuse a 20 year old seat has taken... depending on the size of the drivers who have used the seat its not hard to imagine basically any seat getting worn out/stressed.... a fault like that is always shown at the worst time.
07-30-07, 07:11 PM
#11
Savanna Rx-7
07-30-07, 07:13 PM
#12
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07-30-07, 08:06 PM
#13
Good at "stupid"
Thread Starter
I dont think Mazda is at blame. LOL. I'm just wondering if its a common problem, and if I should be considering a roll bar and harness or aftermarket seats for MY car. Its not like we were racing or anything.... it could have just as easily have been me.
07-31-07, 12:34 AM
#15
Good at "stupid"
Thread Starter
He wasnt rear ended. I was following in my car and the road went from ashphault to gravel and he lost control of his rear end and went nose first into the ditch, then cartwheeled in the air and landed rear down nose up. That's when the hatch glass broke. Then the car barrel rolled out of the ditch back onto the road and he was thrown from the rear hatch on to the road. He died of head truama.
07-31-07, 05:49 AM
#17
You have my sympathy, too. As far as the seatback is concerned, I just did some searching on FMVSS 301 (rear impact testing), and the result was interesting in how inconclusive it was:
Seat Back Failure
In the NPRM, the agency asked how seat back failures influence injury potential in rear impacts. The agency also asked for data that would aid it in determining the need for improving seat back strength and the appropriate requirements for doing so.
The Alliance stated that without a definition of "seat back failure" it could not answer the question. However, the Alliance defined the optimal seat back strength as the balance between strength and flexibility to address both severe and minor impacts.
I've heard some of this conversation before talking with some racing seat manufacturers, and here's the issue: You make the seatback too stiff and it could injure you in a rear impact because of that very stiffness. Think of falling on your back on concrete. You make the seatback too weak and it collapses, causing injuries like your friend's. The correct amount of seatback stiffness depends on the accident (which of course you don't know beforehand).
Some of the true racing seats (the one-piece kind, without recliners) are FIA approved. One of the major things FIA is looking for is their resistance to flattening in a rear impact. They run tests to certify the seats. In addition to the outright strength of the seatback, some racers use a seatback brace, which is very controversial, too. My MOMO rep says that the seatback itself provides adequate support and a measure of compliance that is defeated by a brace. He strongly discourages the use of any braces on an FIA-approved seat.
It seems that this is one area where a little more federal (and international) regulation might be in order.
Seat Back Failure
In the NPRM, the agency asked how seat back failures influence injury potential in rear impacts. The agency also asked for data that would aid it in determining the need for improving seat back strength and the appropriate requirements for doing so.
The Alliance stated that without a definition of "seat back failure" it could not answer the question. However, the Alliance defined the optimal seat back strength as the balance between strength and flexibility to address both severe and minor impacts.
I've heard some of this conversation before talking with some racing seat manufacturers, and here's the issue: You make the seatback too stiff and it could injure you in a rear impact because of that very stiffness. Think of falling on your back on concrete. You make the seatback too weak and it collapses, causing injuries like your friend's. The correct amount of seatback stiffness depends on the accident (which of course you don't know beforehand).
Some of the true racing seats (the one-piece kind, without recliners) are FIA approved. One of the major things FIA is looking for is their resistance to flattening in a rear impact. They run tests to certify the seats. In addition to the outright strength of the seatback, some racers use a seatback brace, which is very controversial, too. My MOMO rep says that the seatback itself provides adequate support and a measure of compliance that is defeated by a brace. He strongly discourages the use of any braces on an FIA-approved seat.
It seems that this is one area where a little more federal (and international) regulation might be in order.
07-31-07, 06:22 AM
#19
You'll have regulations that cover this.
Below is a quote from the guy I referred to earlier who's RX-8 was totalled after being rear-ended by a truck...
Below is a quote from the guy I referred to earlier who's RX-8 was totalled after being rear-ended by a truck...
Mazda Australia also said that the Australian Design Rules for the front seats requires that they withstand 530 Newton Metres of impact torque, whereas the Mazda Japan people state that the RX-8 seat is designed to withstand over 900 Newton Metres.
07-31-07, 12:48 PM
#21
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seat belt
This sounds suspiciously like he might have buckled the seat belt behind him and was sitting on or in front of it instead of being belted in.
Use of seatbelt = 65% reduction in injury/death
use of seatbelt and airbag = 68% reduction
use of airbag without seatbelt = 15 % reduction
Use of seatbelt = 65% reduction in injury/death
use of seatbelt and airbag = 68% reduction
use of airbag without seatbelt = 15 % reduction
07-31-07, 05:23 PM
#22
This sounds suspiciously like he might have buckled the seat belt behind him and was sitting on or in front of it instead of being belted in.
Use of seatbelt = 65% reduction in injury/death
use of seatbelt and airbag = 68% reduction
use of airbag without seatbelt = 15 % reduction
Use of seatbelt = 65% reduction in injury/death
use of seatbelt and airbag = 68% reduction
use of airbag without seatbelt = 15 % reduction
What good is a seatbelt if the forces are exerted rearwards. Without a full seat with an upright back to hold you in...the belt is useless.
07-31-07, 11:45 PM
#25
The seat reclining is actually pretty common in rear end accidents with cars of our era. I've seen time and time again when the seats would break in a rear end accident. It didn't even have to be a major hit from the rear.