SE won't start - flooded?
02-29-04, 11:19 PM
#1
SE won't start - flooded?
i'm posting this to pretty much back up my suspicions why the car won't start..
it's a '84 GSL-SE with 214k mi. i drove it a couple weeks ago for a test drive and went to pick it up this weekend, and i couldn't get it to start.
i assume it's flooded. it just won't start. the engine spins when the starter engaged with little resistance.
when i take the plugs off, they're wet (they're also old, i'll need to get new ones). and when i crank it over with the plugs off, i hear three even puffs out the holes.
also, i have tried to unflood it by cranking with the blue spade connector on the trailing plug disconnected. still no start.
the car has been sitting for about 9 months with the exception of my 15 minute test drive earlier this month.
my current plan of action is to get new plugs, put in a few gallons of fresh gas, and try to get it to catch.
any input here?
it's a '84 GSL-SE with 214k mi. i drove it a couple weeks ago for a test drive and went to pick it up this weekend, and i couldn't get it to start.
i assume it's flooded. it just won't start. the engine spins when the starter engaged with little resistance.
when i take the plugs off, they're wet (they're also old, i'll need to get new ones). and when i crank it over with the plugs off, i hear three even puffs out the holes.
also, i have tried to unflood it by cranking with the blue spade connector on the trailing plug disconnected. still no start.
the car has been sitting for about 9 months with the exception of my 15 minute test drive earlier this month.
my current plan of action is to get new plugs, put in a few gallons of fresh gas, and try to get it to catch.
any input here?
02-29-04, 11:34 PM
#2
9 months = bunk gas. drain the old **** and replace it with new gas, new fuel filter.
I would pull off the fuel line right before the fuel rail and run the fuel pump to remove some of the old gas from the line, pull the blue spade connector to disable the injectors.
Before you put in the plugs put a couple squirts of oil or mmo and crank it over by hand to bump the compression before you start it.
Tell us what happens!
I would pull off the fuel line right before the fuel rail and run the fuel pump to remove some of the old gas from the line, pull the blue spade connector to disable the injectors.
Before you put in the plugs put a couple squirts of oil or mmo and crank it over by hand to bump the compression before you start it.
Tell us what happens!
03-01-04, 06:06 AM
#6
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Dont sweat the gas, it doesnt bother rotaries as much as people think. I had a full tank sit for 4 years (not even gas stabilizer) and she fired right up. Your probably faced with injector leakdown, youll need to do the unflood proceedure or just push/pull start (much easier with better results).
03-01-04, 08:28 AM
#7
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hey cpt
sometimes you have to try the blue spade connector trick more than once, letting the starter cool down in between attempts. Just make sure you have the gas pedal all the way down on the floor while you crank it, and let it crank for 15 - 20 seconds. I think if it's flooded pretty bad, then it will take a few trials. It works for me every time though.
rio
sometimes you have to try the blue spade connector trick more than once, letting the starter cool down in between attempts. Just make sure you have the gas pedal all the way down on the floor while you crank it, and let it crank for 15 - 20 seconds. I think if it's flooded pretty bad, then it will take a few trials. It works for me every time though.
rio
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03-01-04, 11:10 AM
#9
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
The 'Blue Spade Connector' is the Ignition coil lead that they're talking about.
My recommendation is to use the "Injector" Fusible Link, as this disables the fuel pump and injectors via the ECU. By taking off the ignition coil primary, you're removing the ignition signal, but not the fuel injection signal.
As the others have noted, getting enough compression to start up is the hard thing with a flooded engine. Some MMO in the spark plug holes wouldn't hurt - not too much, just enough to get the apex seals and side seals wet. HTH,
My recommendation is to use the "Injector" Fusible Link, as this disables the fuel pump and injectors via the ECU. By taking off the ignition coil primary, you're removing the ignition signal, but not the fuel injection signal.
As the others have noted, getting enough compression to start up is the hard thing with a flooded engine. Some MMO in the spark plug holes wouldn't hurt - not too much, just enough to get the apex seals and side seals wet. HTH,
Last edited by LongDuck; 03-01-04 at 11:13 AM.
03-01-04, 11:23 AM
#11
cool guys thanks for the input. i was planning on using some MMO, dropping a couple gallons of fresh gas into the tank (it's got less than 1/4 tank now), and putting in some fresh spark plugs.
just wanted to run it by the masses before i started for fear of breaking something.
-brad
just wanted to run it by the masses before i started for fear of breaking something.
-brad
03-01-04, 11:44 AM
#13
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
It's one of the top two - I think it's the second one down, with the green Fusible Link, but don't have access to the FSM to look at this for you.
If all else fails, read the writing on the side of the fusible link block!
If all else fails, read the writing on the side of the fusible link block!
03-01-04, 12:10 PM
#14
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It seems that 20 years has removed any script that may have existed on the top two, that or I can't read it because the bracket is in the way. At any rate, thanks for the info.
03-01-04, 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by LongDuck
The 'Blue Spade Connector' is the Ignition coil lead that they're talking about.
The 'Blue Spade Connector' is the Ignition coil lead that they're talking about.
By unhooking this connector, you are cutting power to the fuel pump (i'm pretty sure).
03-01-04, 12:37 PM
#16
Actually, the blue spade connector connects to the negative lead on the trailing coil. This then connects to the ecu. It is used to tell the ecu when and how often to fire the injectors. By removing the lead, you are disabling the injectors. (Unless the controling lead of one or both connectors is shorted to ground)
Kent
Kent
03-01-04, 12:44 PM
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Kent,
Would removing the connector you are refering to be the preferred way to cut juice to the injectors, or would it be better to remove the proper fusible link?
Would removing the connector you are refering to be the preferred way to cut juice to the injectors, or would it be better to remove the proper fusible link?
03-01-04, 01:09 PM
#19
I personally use a fuel pump kill switch. It makes it easy to start when flooded all within the car. I just turn the switch off and crank until it fires. Once it fires, I flip it back on and it usually stays running.
Unpluging the blue connector will accomplish the same thing in most cases. The only way that removing the blue connector wouldn't work is if you had the controling wire to one of the injectors shorted to ground (causing it to stay open) or if one of the injectors was physically stuck open.
By pulling the fusible link, you disable power to the injectors. They would then stay closed even if there was a short in the wiring.
I don't know if you are aware, but the FSM for this car can be found at:
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/rx7/85_manual.html
It is full of information and has helped me numerous times in trouble shooting my SE.
Kent
Unpluging the blue connector will accomplish the same thing in most cases. The only way that removing the blue connector wouldn't work is if you had the controling wire to one of the injectors shorted to ground (causing it to stay open) or if one of the injectors was physically stuck open.
By pulling the fusible link, you disable power to the injectors. They would then stay closed even if there was a short in the wiring.
I don't know if you are aware, but the FSM for this car can be found at:
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/rx7/85_manual.html
It is full of information and has helped me numerous times in trouble shooting my SE.
Kent
03-02-04, 12:20 AM
#21
i went at it today armed with some MMO and the knowledge to nix the fuel.
still no worky.
actually, i almost kind of sort of got it to catch, and attempted to spray some starting fluid, but i wasn't able to start it. at that point the battery was kind of weak, so i put it back on the charger and i'll get to it tomorrow.
those plug holes are a pain to get the MMO into, that's for sure. i made quite the mess trying to get the ciphon hose in there.
tomorrow, i will begin with a fresh battery, new plugs, and a turkey baster for the mmo injection.
starting to get frustrated with this.
if there's anyone in the seattle area who has successfully unflooded an SE, i would love to convince you to come give me a hand. payment can be made with beer.
thanks for your help so far, i think i am closer to getting this beast on the road.
still no worky.
actually, i almost kind of sort of got it to catch, and attempted to spray some starting fluid, but i wasn't able to start it. at that point the battery was kind of weak, so i put it back on the charger and i'll get to it tomorrow.
those plug holes are a pain to get the MMO into, that's for sure. i made quite the mess trying to get the ciphon hose in there.
tomorrow, i will begin with a fresh battery, new plugs, and a turkey baster for the mmo injection.
starting to get frustrated with this.
if there's anyone in the seattle area who has successfully unflooded an SE, i would love to convince you to come give me a hand. payment can be made with beer.
thanks for your help so far, i think i am closer to getting this beast on the road.
03-02-04, 12:30 AM
#22
Originally posted by riofrio
hey cpt
sometimes you have to try the blue spade connector trick more than once, letting the starter cool down in between attempts. Just make sure you have the gas pedal all the way down on the floor while you crank it, and let it crank for 15 - 20 seconds. I think if it's flooded pretty bad, then it will take a few trials. It works for me every time though.
rio
hey cpt
sometimes you have to try the blue spade connector trick more than once, letting the starter cool down in between attempts. Just make sure you have the gas pedal all the way down on the floor while you crank it, and let it crank for 15 - 20 seconds. I think if it's flooded pretty bad, then it will take a few trials. It works for me every time though.
rio
03-02-04, 09:22 AM
#23
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Kent,
Thanks for clarifying
.Good to learn something new every day!
cpt,
I wonder the same thing... hopefully someone here can answer that for the both of us, cause I've been wanting to know as well.
Thanks for clarifying
.Good to learn something new every day!cpt,
I wonder the same thing... hopefully someone here can answer that for the both of us, cause I've been wanting to know as well.
03-02-04, 11:17 AM
#24
84SE-EGI helpy-helperton
If you hold the throttle pedal down all the way when you crank it, you're opening the primary and secondary butterflies as far as they will go, helping to get more air into the engine.
Your problem with flooding is not enough air, as much as it is too much gas. Open up the air inlet to help out with unflooding. HTH,
Your problem with flooding is not enough air, as much as it is too much gas. Open up the air inlet to help out with unflooding. HTH,
03-02-04, 03:52 PM
#25
so the plan of action tonight is to apply some mad MMO action via a turkey baster this time, not a gimpy cyphon pump that didn't end up working.
start with a fresh battery and new plugs. i'm hoping this gives me a marked advantage over my mini-nemesis.
was thinking about taking steve's advice and push starting it. if i were to get 3 people behind the car, do ya think we'd be able to get it going fast enough to gain an advantage over the starter motor?
oh yeah and i'd like to take this opportunity to say that the power steering pump is a major pain in the *** when dealing with spark plugs :|
start with a fresh battery and new plugs. i'm hoping this gives me a marked advantage over my mini-nemesis.
was thinking about taking steve's advice and push starting it. if i were to get 3 people behind the car, do ya think we'd be able to get it going fast enough to gain an advantage over the starter motor?
oh yeah and i'd like to take this opportunity to say that the power steering pump is a major pain in the *** when dealing with spark plugs :|