Paradox

iTrader: (1)

this is starting to aggrivate me. i've been messing with this -SE 13b in my 84 GS for the past week trying to get it to start, and it just wont turn over...

i pulled a plug wire and put it by the strut tower bolts and cranked it to see if i was getting spark, and it isnt. its definetaly getting fuel, i can smell that much.

i checked the coils and they seem to be fine, it has a brand new dist. cap and plugs / wires on it.

here's a few pics, let me know if you guys can see anything out of place. the wires cut from the harness were from a previous owner, they were supposidely for a alarm or something.. anyways the engine ran fine with those like that beforehand.

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Are the coils getting power (12v to both the + and - terminals with the key on)? Is this dist from the 12A or the 13B? Check to see if the plugs for the igniters are plugged in good. Sometime the terminal bends so that they look like they are plugged in but the aren't really. You could also try checking to see if you are getting spark from the coil by unplugging the leading and trailng high tension wires from the dist. and putting them near the chassis and cranking.

The ignition is almost identical to the 12A (except the 13b dist has a slightly different advance curve), so if the ignition was working before the swap, it shouldn't be that hard to get it working now.

GavinJuice

when you checked the coils how are they "fine?" also when you checked the plug to see if it's firing did you check all 4 or just one? the only thing i can think of would be bad coil(s) and or ignitor(s). BUT you said your coils are fine so from what you saying your problem has to be aft of that.

have you checked to see if you burnt a fusible link?

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

far as i know the coils are getting power since they are the same that were running my 12a not 2 weeks ago. the dist itself is the 13b one, so even the timing should still be set properly.

i checked the ignitor wiring briefly before but yet again its the same from the 12a, so unless something got yanked out of place in the swap i cant see those being a prob.

im still stumped, hopefully the weather will clear up and i can get more hours work into it soon here.

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

i checked them with a multimeter as in the FSM. the ohms were a little low, but they should be functional.

i havent checked the ignitor yet since my tester light has a burned bulb. so thats definetaly a possibility, i may try and find one from a junker since i have to get a GSL-SE throttle cable anyways.

also havent checked the fusible links, but someone wired up a small fuse just ahead of them (i guess as a secondary precaution) and the fuse in that isnt blown. how do i check the fusible link to see if they are blown anyways?

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Double check the power. The engine fuse could have blown or something. This would cause the lack of spark. I asked about the dizzy becuase maybe this one has bad igniters. Did the 13b run when you bought it? Make sure the igniter wires are plugged in good. If you have power to the coils, and a good connection to the igniters, then I would try swapping the igniters with your old ones (although it doesn't seem likely that both igniters would be completely dead, so check the other stuff first).

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

well this is interesting, im getting spark now, just checked trailing/leading on the strut tower and i got spark, i then tried one of the plugs and got spark then too.

but its not turning over..... arggh!

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

That's weird about the spark. So, you are using a SE fuel pump, right? Try turning the key on and proping open the door on the AFM. You should hear the fuel pump running. The SE also has a blue spade connector that goes to the negative terminal of the traiuling coil. Do you have this? This is what the ECU uses to know when to fire the injectors. Are the injectors getting power? The engine may also be flooded (it's cranking, just not starting, right?). Try to disconnect the blue spade connector from the trailing coil and crank.

Dan_s_young

iTrader: (1)

when you say its not turning over do you mean the engine will not spin at all or that it just spins and won't start? Maybe its just really really flooded if you smell massive amounts of gas, have you thought about pull starting it?

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

no SE fuel pump yet, i was going to grab one once i had it running...

where does this blue spade connector come out of the block on the 13b? there is blue connector on there, im just going to go double check its the right one.

and yes im thinking flooding could be a possibility now since the crank is spinning, i am getting spark and i can smell fuel....

edit, check the pic, is that the connector you mean?

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

I don't know if you will be able to get it going without an EFI pump. The carb pump can only put out a couple psi max, where the EFI system needs the pump to provide 50 -70 psi. The blue spade connector is on the harness with the coil power wires and such.

EDIT: Yes, that should be the one. If you disconnect it, your injectors won't fire and give the engine a chance to clear out some.

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

ahh, well that makes sense. i knew it would be something stupid that i had overlooked. i'll have to pick one up and give that a shot

is the SE pump inline or in-tank?

Max7

get a 13B fuel pump first, you can't use the stock 12A pump.

Max7

It's inline

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

ok, the pump is in. spent the past two days tracking wires around in my spare time since it wasnt getting any power.... finally just used the fuel relay "trick" and the pump comes on no prob.

weird part now is im not getting fuel to the engine. i removed the fuel line and i can hear a gurgling sound going through but no fuel.

even with the throttle closed, i should be getting pressure, no?

the fuel filter is fine. but it is the filter for the 12A lines. i do also have the -SE filter i just havent put it in yet...

im also still using the 12a tank, but i filled it right to the top with gas. so the pickup should be working fine now?

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

You will have to put on the SE filter and replace all of the soft fuel line (in the engine bay and by the pump) with EFI fuel hose as the carb fuel hose is not designed to work with those pressures.

With the pump, I wonder if you have the lines backwards. The wiring was just a straight plug in or did you have to do some wiring for the pump?

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

i bought new (soft) hoses that should hold the pressure. i have soft lines in my supra running high pressure and have yet to have a problem with those... i will be grabbing the hard lines when i get the SE fuel tank tho.

as for the fuel pump wiring, its plugged in exactly how it was with the 12a pump, kinda weird the relay stopped working now. i might have bumped around some wires or something when i was yanking out the gas pedal and throttle/choke cable tho.

thanks again man!

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

The fuel line should say on it if it is for EFI or not. It will say something like 'not for fuel injection' if it is carb hose. The carb hose will work for a while, but will eventually swell and possibly burst.

Since the electrical part didn't change, I would go ahead and put the SE filter on and verify the routing of the hose. Good luck.

Kent

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

ok finally i have full pressure to the engine. i put in EFI lines and the SE filter... i am definetaly getting fuel, i am also definetaly getting spart, now here comes the strange part:

yesterday when i was playing around i was turning the key on/off to hear for the fuel relay "click" which i did infact hear. but now that i have the fuel pump relay bypassed with the relay "trick" i dont hear this click anymore, sooooo looks like my injectors arent working.

where is the relay and is there anything i could have done to change it in the past day that it isnt working now?

all fuses are good, the only thing i could think causing this would be bypassing the fuel pump relay, but i have no clue as to how, or why?

thanks

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

could this be due to a bad ignitor? i swapped over the blue spade connector but still no go...

hmmm

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

I would start off by checking the voltages at the ECU. The values are given in the FSM. It only takes a couple minutes to do.

How are your injectors powered? The -SE has two extra fusible links that the 12A cars don't have (1 for the ECU, 1 for the injectors). In checking the ECU voltages as above, you will be able to tell if the injectors are getting power.

Try turning the key to the 'ON' position. Do you hear the fuel pump running? It should be running if the fuel pump relay is bypassed correctly. You could try putting the relay back how it was and either prop the AFM door open or put a jumper wire across the terminals of the connector with the rubber boot near the AFM. Either way, the fuel pump should run with the key in the 'ON' position this way.

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

ahhhh so yet another missing part i was unaware of. someone needs to do a write-up of all whats required in this swap, hehe. i see the fusible link in the FSM that i need, but where in the harness would these attach? or is there another way of doing this?

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

I'm not sure exactly. With the wiring harness that you have for the ECU, does it just have the part that goes to the engine and then you provided the other components of the wiring? You could just get the 13B links and wiring seeing how it seems that you have access to those parts. Otherwise you could put in a 2nd gen fuse box or run power directly from the battery, though inline fuses, to the ECU and the injectors. I would say that if you can get the -SE stuff, that would probably be the easiest way (plug and play).

Maybe you could do a writeup on the swap once you get it going. I am sure that the info would benefit others on here.

Paradox

iTrader: (1)

i have the SE engine harness, but not the front harness... other than the injectors and ECU i dont see the front harness being any different.

i am getting 12v at the ECU but only to the small black box on the bracket.

after looking at the wiring diagram it looks like i can just splice power in from the additional fusible link to a white wire and white/blue on the ECU, im not too keen on swapping in the front harness since i'd most likely have to pull the dash to get that in

i think i will do a write-up after this is done just to make it easier on others doing the same swap

gsl-se addict

iTrader: (3)

Which wires do you mean? I am not seeing those off hand. It appears that the injectors/ECU should be part of the engine harness, so I magine that you have them. There should be 1 or 2 extra black wires with a yellow stripe with probably a ring terminal on the end. It should be over on the drivers side of the eninge bay. Once you find them, you can put some inline fuses and connect to the battery (probably about 20 amp would do).