sa22c thermal reactor question.
10-11-11, 06:21 PM
#1
car setter on firer
Thread Starter
sa22c thermal reactor question.
hey i have a fuel leak coming from somewhere (it caught fire) i can see dribbles coming from the thermal reactor thingy. i need to take off the TR so i can try to find the leak. 2 questions:
1) how do you get at those nuts for the TR thing?
2) is there anywhere the carb could leak from underneath? i have all vac line plugged, there are no leaks up top, and nothing i can visibly see from the top of the bay, only from below, and it can make a pretty good size puddle if left "on."
a puddle which can ignite real quick. (ask me how i know...
)
1) how do you get at those nuts for the TR thing?
2) is there anywhere the carb could leak from underneath? i have all vac line plugged, there are no leaks up top, and nothing i can visibly see from the top of the bay, only from below, and it can make a pretty good size puddle if left "on."
a puddle which can ignite real quick. (ask me how i know...
)
10-11-11, 06:35 PM
#2
car setter on firer
Thread Starter
post #50!!! YA! i got moves like jagger... also, the 12a does not like low rpms, dies if i let off throttle, is not liking full throttle at all, and i have to baby it to get past 2k. below 2k is garbage, sounds like a piston engine missing spark on a cylinder.
10-11-11, 06:40 PM
#3
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my old SA did the same thing (even the fire!), however after that its been fine(!)
this is a really weird problem, and i'm hoping divindriver will chime in, because his car does it too, minus the fire. we think there is some problem with the carb, that lets it leak fuel into the TR, which causes a huge (and intermittent) cloud of smoke on startup.
so to recap, the TR is probably fine, its just a big steel chamber. we think somehow the fuel finds its way into the TR, from the carb or emissions system. both his and mine are CA cars with full emissions equipment, and they both actually pass smog easily
this is a really weird problem, and i'm hoping divindriver will chime in, because his car does it too, minus the fire. we think there is some problem with the carb, that lets it leak fuel into the TR, which causes a huge (and intermittent) cloud of smoke on startup.
so to recap, the TR is probably fine, its just a big steel chamber. we think somehow the fuel finds its way into the TR, from the carb or emissions system. both his and mine are CA cars with full emissions equipment, and they both actually pass smog easily
10-11-11, 07:32 PM
#4
car setter on firer
Thread Starter
it was scary as hell because the fire waas in the engine bay and growing, it took three big buckets of water before it was dowsed, but the fire dept came anyway and helped out. i dont want to start it again.... could the fire have been from a lot of fuel building up in the TR? i had been cranking the poop out that car for over the course of a month to try to get it to fire (turns out it was a bad trailing coil) once started it flamed like a ****
10-11-11, 09:41 PM
#5
The fuel is either coming form unspent fuel getting pushed out the exhaust or a fuel line/carb is leaking it out and down to the reactor where the fuel is getting heated up. The fact the you hace to keep the RPMs up gives a clue. I bet the carb is getting overloaded with fuel and the unspend fuel is getting ignited by the hot reator. Taking the reactor (exhaust manifold) off will tell you really quick.
10-12-11, 10:52 AM
#7
1) My carb does not leak anything externally. The problem I've been chasing that j9fc3s is referring to is an internal problem that drains the rear carb bowl into the manifold and so into the combustion chamber, sometimes causing a flood condition - - but only after a hot shutdown; otherwise it runs fine. Little different problem, no fire hazard & no external sign of fuel.
2) If you've got fuel leaking externally from the carb, the most likely sources are the jet-access plugs that go through the sides of the float bowls, or possibly from the richer solenoid. HOWEVER, in cases of severe flooding of the secondaries (like what can happen with a stuck float needle, or a bad bowl float that won't float), fuel puddles on top of the closed secondary butterfly and literally leaks out the butterfly shaft bushings; they are not fuel-tight. I've seen that happen several times when the needle valve doesn't close properly, and the bowl overflows the jets and bleeds.
3) Never start a car that has visible fuel leaking from the carb or anywhere within the engine compartment - - especially when equipped with a TR. Solve them before doing anything else. When working right, you can let the car sit with the fuel pump running forever and not leak a drop of fuel. Fires are bad.
4) Using water to put out a gasoline fire is the best way to make a bigger fire. Burning gas will flow on top of the spreading water, or splash anywhere. Use a CO2 or dry-chem extinguisher, from a proper distance. Even throwing dirt on it is safer. I have a goodly-sized ABC extinguisher in my garage, and whenever I'm dealing with a fuel leak, that puppy is off the wall clamps and within reach. I've never had to use it, but having personally been on fire before (not car related) I can't recommend it as a joy-making experience.
5) The easiest way to remove the TR is to remove the intake manifold, as there's nearly no room to swing a wrench otherwise... but that's a pain in the *** because the cooling channels go through the intake manifold, so you end up draining the block.
MAZDA made a special tool for taking those top two nuts off; picture of it in the back of the FSM. Socket head on a metal shaft with two bends in it, and a t-handle. Made from pure unobtanium, of course.
If you can find a proper-sized socket with an integral flex joint, you may be able to work the nuts loose if they are not too corroded. A regular socket with a snap-in flex is too long. You can also try a crow's foot wrench, if you can find one not too meaty. Modding it with a grinder may be helpful. Once broken loose & turning free, they usually can be fingered off, but you need a good strategy for re-tightening them too.
Hitting them with penetrating oil or PB Blaster first helps.
After cussing my way through removing the intake a couple times years back, I eventually replaced the top nuts with a pair with smaller (14mm) outside dimension nuts of proper thread & hardness; added just enough room that the flex-socket trick now works easily.
6) fuel building up inside the TR will not cause a fire in the engine compartment... unless the TR has a serious leak through both the inner and outer walls. They can get breached internally but are very heavily built on the outside.
As KC-REPU says, it sounds like you have a flooding/over-rich issue, which would explain both the leaking fuel and the poor performance.
My 20 cents. Inflation.
2) If you've got fuel leaking externally from the carb, the most likely sources are the jet-access plugs that go through the sides of the float bowls, or possibly from the richer solenoid. HOWEVER, in cases of severe flooding of the secondaries (like what can happen with a stuck float needle, or a bad bowl float that won't float), fuel puddles on top of the closed secondary butterfly and literally leaks out the butterfly shaft bushings; they are not fuel-tight. I've seen that happen several times when the needle valve doesn't close properly, and the bowl overflows the jets and bleeds.
3) Never start a car that has visible fuel leaking from the carb or anywhere within the engine compartment - - especially when equipped with a TR. Solve them before doing anything else. When working right, you can let the car sit with the fuel pump running forever and not leak a drop of fuel. Fires are bad.
4) Using water to put out a gasoline fire is the best way to make a bigger fire. Burning gas will flow on top of the spreading water, or splash anywhere. Use a CO2 or dry-chem extinguisher, from a proper distance. Even throwing dirt on it is safer. I have a goodly-sized ABC extinguisher in my garage, and whenever I'm dealing with a fuel leak, that puppy is off the wall clamps and within reach. I've never had to use it, but having personally been on fire before (not car related) I can't recommend it as a joy-making experience.
5) The easiest way to remove the TR is to remove the intake manifold, as there's nearly no room to swing a wrench otherwise... but that's a pain in the *** because the cooling channels go through the intake manifold, so you end up draining the block.
MAZDA made a special tool for taking those top two nuts off; picture of it in the back of the FSM. Socket head on a metal shaft with two bends in it, and a t-handle. Made from pure unobtanium, of course.
If you can find a proper-sized socket with an integral flex joint, you may be able to work the nuts loose if they are not too corroded. A regular socket with a snap-in flex is too long. You can also try a crow's foot wrench, if you can find one not too meaty. Modding it with a grinder may be helpful. Once broken loose & turning free, they usually can be fingered off, but you need a good strategy for re-tightening them too.
Hitting them with penetrating oil or PB Blaster first helps.
After cussing my way through removing the intake a couple times years back, I eventually replaced the top nuts with a pair with smaller (14mm) outside dimension nuts of proper thread & hardness; added just enough room that the flex-socket trick now works easily.
6) fuel building up inside the TR will not cause a fire in the engine compartment... unless the TR has a serious leak through both the inner and outer walls. They can get breached internally but are very heavily built on the outside.
As KC-REPU says, it sounds like you have a flooding/over-rich issue, which would explain both the leaking fuel and the poor performance.
My 20 cents. Inflation.
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10-12-11, 11:52 AM
#8
car setter on firer
Thread Starter
^^^ I love this guy! I bought an extinguisher. I am really going to pull this carb and exhaust, both are just terrible! Ancient! And not my style! What is entailed with the install of a rb header? What all needz blocked off?
10-12-11, 11:53 AM
#9
PS; having noted Banzai's post in your other thread, the accel pump diaphragm is a point others have had failures with. Never happened to me yet, but it's easy to see how it could. Flexible wear point that can drain the entire rear bowl if it wants to.
10-12-11, 11:55 AM
#10
The TR, air duct, and heat exchanger all get replaced by the header; you keep your current midpipe and muffler. It's a pretty direct bolt-up.
10-13-11, 04:08 PM
#11
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don't throw the TR away though, its worth money to us CA people.
and yes fire, can be bad! you have to be careful! cars actually don't burn very well, so you have to be more worried about YOU.
and yes fire, can be bad! you have to be careful! cars actually don't burn very well, so you have to be more worried about YOU.
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