RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Ok...Every now and then when I start my car cold, it kinda feels like its running on one rotor, or the leading plugs only. It fires up and the tach still works, it just runs really rough and sounds goofy. Then, all of a sudden, it will smooth out, rev up, and sound normal. I know that since the tach works that the trailing ignitor/coil is at least working, but what else could I check? Sometimes it will idle smooth as glass, and then other times it will kinda idle smoth, then get rough, then smooth out, etc... I dont know if theyre related or not. For my ignition mods, see my sig, but it was doing this before that too. Although, before the MSD stuff, it would idle rough all the time, now it just kinda gets rough every now and then. But I had the running on one rotor feeling a couple times before the new coils. New cap and rotor maybe? Im getting new plugs soon, but I dont think they would cause this kind of problem, because Ive had them out recently and they looked good according to all of you.

~T.J.

RacerX7fb

UGH.. TJ does it sound like a lawnmower at a cold startup and then about a minute or so later it's alright? In my experience it means that a water seal is going out...meaning my engines were near the end of their journey. Coolent getting into the combustion area causing the rough start then finally burning off and running smooth. I hope I'm wrong

Fennix_sr

does it surge sorta with power like normal, little surge, normal little surge... then about 2 mins later it all the sudden just starts reving smoothe, then you turn of choke and it idles fine

djmickyg

thats what my old bag'o'**** volvo was doing when the crack in the head was getting biger and biger. was very hard to start then once the water cleared it ran alright (alright for a volvo)

if the seals are going on the rotary cus this effect it when ideling?

what mine does some times, when im stoped at the lights the revs will drop to 0 and if i dont press the acc in time it was stall and wont start agian unless i pull the plugs out and crank it.
and if i do press the acc in time and stop it from dying it idles really lumpy, like its a bidge port.

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I thought about water seals cause I have quite a bit of white smoke on start up, but I decided that it wasnt a bad water seal, it was condensation like any other car. When I thought it was a water seal, in a thread I started, I was convinced it wasnt by you guys, lol...Hmmm. If it was a water seal, why would it only do it some of the time? Like once every couple months? Also, when it happened most recently, it was right after I had been driving it for over 200 miles (went to Oregon). It was running fine, I stopped at the gas station for some gum, went back to the car, started it, and it did it. First time its ever done it warm, all the others (5 times total) were after sitting all night. Also, the car was running nice and cool the whole trip. The needle was barely up the temp gauge, and it was cold and raining outside, so I dont think it was over heated to force the coolant in or anything.

~T.J.

Fennix_sr

what if when you shut it off the coolant has time to build up in there bro... that has gotta suck ccuz i think thats happening to mine, but it has white smoke on start up for about 1 min... but i dismiss it becuase i drove my moms car, started it up in the morning and it had lots of white smoke... but it quickly goes away...

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, the smoke I have is heavier than most cars on a cold startup, but goes away faster. I dont think its water getting in there...Especially after sitting for only 2 minutes while the engine was hot. It almost feels like an ignition problem...But I couldd be WAY off base. Thats just what my gut instinct tells me, but then why would it only do it every now and then? Its just pissing me off, lol. I havent asked about it before because I just thought it was the coils arcing, but now I have new ones and I dont know what to think. Maybe Ill build up that DLIDFIS and drop that in with my 3 MSD coils and see if that works/makes a differance.

~T.J.

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Oh, would the engine run on just the trailing ignition? Like could it be a bad leading ignitor? Im gonna take the last of my Schucks gift card and pick up some new NGK plugs next day theyre open, just cause I need new ones anyway, I have no idea how many miles are on these...At least 5K that I put on, plus however many before I swapped the engine . So then Ill wait to see if it does it again. If it does do it again after that, Ill try cap and rotor. Then, if that doesnt work, Ill start thinking things other than ignition (like water in there ). Oh well, back to the question. Would the engine run with a dead/failing leading ignitior? I dont think so (at least not with a non-functional one, maybe dying?), but Im just trying to weed out my problem . Thanks for the input people .

~T.J.

racermike

Sometimes when water is getting into 1 rotor, the plugs will look different. Just like the "water injection cleaning" thing. You only have 2 to compare really, the trailing ones may look identical. On a piston engine 1 or 2 plugs looking different is a good sign of a blown head gasket.

racermike

Yes it will run (if that is the only problem) but of course the timming will be 20 deg. retarded. You would be down on power and it could be VERY hard or almost impossible to start. Most of the time it would just do enough that you think it will fire but doesn't. With persistance it may take off, or not!

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, but as I said earlier, all four plugs were identical, and were deemed "running well" when I last checked them and took pics a little while ago (still having this problem then as well). So no signs of water on them, even on a cold start morning. I pulled the plugs and had someone turn it over while I watched for water or mist to come out, nothing. Anyway, I dont think its a water seal. I dont want to sound stubborn and everyone say "I told you so" when it is, but I just dont think it is given certain evidence. When I had my thread about the possibility of a water seal, I did the checks that people posted and came back with negative results. Also, I took a video and posted it of my cars smoke and everyone seemed to think it was normal condensation smoke for startup. I just dont know. Im not going through any more water/coolant or anything...Grrr, I hate not knowing what a problem is, but the hunt is so fun .

~T.J.

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

I dont think thats it then. Every time it happens, I have just walked out to the car, turned the ignition on, pulled the choke, and hit the key and it fires right up, just not running "right" for a little while, then all of a sudden smooths out...I dont think it would start that easy without the leading plugs, which is why I thought maybe trailing, but nothing is pointing to the trailing ignition not working.

~T.J.

inittab

Yes it will. It'll run like crap but it does run. My leading ignitor blew and I drove my car 40 miles to get home. Try pulling your leading wires to see if there's a difference. That should tell you definitively if it's dead or not.

racermike

In the past with a very intermittit problem like you are describing I have blamed the carb, but? I know you say it doesn't happen all the time,,,,,but have you ever just pulled the plugs in the morning BEFORE ever trying to start it? You just might see something different then??
I know that because the plugs sit "out" from the motor, under the right conditions, they will cool enough that any water in the chamber will condense on them. It will usually "dry" off fairly quickly when the engine starts. It may be a leak that is undetectable from the condition of the plugs in use, but may show up in the overnight cold condition. Also IF there WAS a coolant leak, depending on the exact spot it is comming from, and the position of the rotor when it stops, it may or may not affect the plug on starting.
I hate intermittit problems!! When I worked on computers I would have to find some that only occured once in 10 Mil. opperations! If I were you and could not see anything else, I think I would go to cleaning the carb., 1st with additives, and then the hard way.

racermike

This really belongs in the "dirty tricks" thread, but, once I was helping a friend diagnois a simular problem over the phone. I told him that with the car running, he could pull the coil wires from the distibutor 1 at a time to make sure they were both firing because the car should keep running with just 1, although not as good when he pulled the leading. He called back a few minutes later cussing up a storm!!! He always thought twice about what I would tell him to do after that.

rxtasy3

iTrader: (2)

Running on one rotor sounds like it. I've had it happen to me too, usually during the winter months, tho. It's just weak apex seal springs, along with some carbon build up, the seals sometimes want to stick. The higher mileage engines will do it alot after sitting for 3 days or more.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Doing that would make it smoke white tho right?

jutny

yes, it would run on only the trailing, as my car was doing that yesterday.... ran like ****, but it ran... and started. Changed the plugs for some br8eq's and its fine now.

RacerX7fb

Yeah the engine that I finally pulled out after having over 280K miles on it would smoke like a banshee when driven at redline, that kept me from autocrossing all year until I recently got another engine. The last time someone tried to race me on the freeway I smoked him... literally

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

ATF trick maybe? Would that possibly help? I know it wont hurt anyway .

~T.J.

racermike

I just dumped some MMO in our '89 Bonneville and 66 Mustang. Don't have a rotary running at this moment, but I thought I would experiment on the pistons.

Fennix_sr

does your coolant level in yer rad tend to drop fast? or faster than normal i checked mine and it doesnt seem to be losing any.

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

Mine doesnt go down at all...It used to, which is why I started that "Blown Coolant Seal" thread a while ago, but it turned out that I had a broken radiator overflow tank lid which was letting the water expand out into the tank, but not get drawn back into the radiator, then it would just slosh out. Anyway, since I fixed that, I havent lost any coolant at all. I dont think its coolant, but Im not saying that it isint.

Im going to try the ignition stuff first (swapping ignitors and stuff) and see if that helps. Do I need to go buy some more heat sink compound for the backs of them when I swap them? I had a tube of it for CPU processors when I was building computers, but Im all out . Anything else I should know for swapping them? Unplug them, unscrew them, and replace them with new heat sink compund...Is that it?

~T.J.

RotorMotorDriver

iTrader: (1)

I know people know how to change ignitors here...

~T.J.

racermike

sorry, Yeah that easy. I usualy find enough heat sink compound left to just reuse. At this time of year I wouldn't worry too much about it. Not even sure it helps that much.
The screws can be pretty tight and at a bad angle or blocked by other items, so I usually just pull the distributor to get at them easier.