rogan

iTrader: (7)

I had checked american racing a long time ago, they use ar for their symbol, these use are.

Rex4Life

I've been driving my 85 12a for 13 years and have 215,000 miles on it--still running good and in fair condition. It has been a very reliable and fun car--I hate to part with it but will be selling it soon.

Why? I just found an 84 13b SE for $1500 in excellent condition. The 35% increase in power is very noticable along with the improved braking, and the power doesn't die off at the top end. I was driving the SE for a few weeks and got used to the braking. Now doing some work on the SE so I'm driving the 12a--first day back I locked up the brakes and got a little scare. The SE is definitely a better performance ride.

I have to admit the complexity of the 13b along with emission testing and parts availability have me worried. There are a lot fewer SEs in the junk yard. Anyway, I'll just take good care of it so it lasts as long as my 12a.

OoMazdaSpeedoO

I guess you could say I got lucky, tranny went out in my truck one day so I looked in the paper to find a new car, something sporty and I found an '85 SE for $1400, went and drove it and bought it within the hour its all stock except for the suspension, the ladys husband use to race it SCCA so that was changed and he took the a/c out but all in all not a bad car, I love it

OoMazdaSpeedoO

BTW: you might check with Eagle Wheels to see what their logos have been on center caps, they are also know as American Eagle Wheels.

hondah8er

Car looks aight but those rims make me wana puke

SilverRocket

Psssshhhhh.... throw a decent carb and exhaust on that 12A, lose some weight, and you'll leave the SE's behind. What does a stock SE run, about 16 flat? A nicely done GS will top that by a full second. And braking? Some hawk pads will take care of that nicely.

I am aware that a modded SE will be fast as well, but the point is that 12A cars are not inferior in speed, handling or braking given some adjustments. Their lighter weight gives them an advantage as well.

Manntis

yeah, but stock to stock there's a 35% power difference, and mod to mod the SE can keep that 35% lead for about the same money... PLUS better brakes and a wider selection of rims

SilverRocket

That's not correct Manntis.

According to RB figures, the SE's 13B with a Dellorto and RB exhaust makes 179hp, the 12A makes 154. That's only a 16% difference. Now you gotta think about the fact that a GS with no a/c, no p/s, no power anything or other options, no leather interior, etc, weighs much less than an SE.

My car stock (1982 GS) weighs 2290 (without a/c). I'd say it presently weighs at least a hundred pounds less than that. If my memory serves me, an SE weighs about 2600 pounds, correct?

The light weight makes a significant difference in braking, handling and acceleration. Manntis, if you took a ride in my car I guarantee you would be very impressed with the braking. It is simply phenomenal with the Hawk pads, I must say. I drive fairly hard, and I have waaaaayyyy more brakes than I need. I've never faded them, ever, from hard stops on the highway from 220 down to 140, to 10 consecutive runs around the autocross course. A $120 dollar investment in brake pads is hardly a big mod - 12A cars has *excellent* brakes, and if you say otherwise, it's because you haven't experience it for yourself.

Now for acceleration, I have no doubt a similarly equipped SE would pull me on the top end, but I'm not so sure about below 100kph or so. Again, the weight makes the difference. I'm really not sure - I'd like to see.

rogan

iTrader: (7)

The rims look okay on an suv, for which I need one replacement center cap. I went to american eagle wheels and american racing, but they do not show any of there old stuff, these rims are out of production, american eagle has a set that are close, but there are a few differences.

Manntis

Silverrocket, my point is:

braking with 4 wheel disc, solid rotors is good.
Braking with 4 wheel disc, vented rotors (SE) is better. That's why the SE has e'm.

Now you're saying your braking with hawk pads on your solid rotors is better'n the stock vented on the SE. But hawk pads on the SE rotors would be better, and so it goes. Hence my 'mod for mod'

Also, I've no doubt the 13B with Delorto carb would only be 16% higher HP, but that engine is designed to be EGI not carb'd.

I think you're also overlooking that, as I've stated several times on this board, I had an '83 for years before getting my SE, and have experienced the 'excellent' brakes for myself on both cars

mwpayne

Well, I don't know any facts n' figures, frankly don't want to know or really care. I respect and admire both of you guy's knowledge, all I have is 'feel'. I've got a nice GSL with new brakes & suspension, 60 K on a rebuilt 12A. I love that little screamer. Then, an SE was for sale near my house (too much rust for $1800.00) with 170K, stock.
I drove it, the handling, ride, and giddy-up was unbelievable compared to mine. Literally scared the s*&@ out of me as I gave it the same gas and clutch I'd been used to.
Bottom line, I GOTTA HAVE AN SE!!
Anybody got one for sale?

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

One word:

TORQUE

Felix Wankel

Damn straight!

That was about the only measurable difference between my -SE and my GS. Seems to me like the -SE power curve is flatter.

The -SE brakes would help a lot more if you were stopping from 50 bazillion mph, but the GSL brakes are fine for such a light car. We aren't hopping up Crown Vics here

SilverRocket

Manntis,

The SE is heavier, the GS is much lighter. Just because the SE has 'better' hardware doesn't mean it stops faster.

I have good tires, and I can lock up easily at 180 kilometers per hour (fastest I've ever experienced), and it's virtually impossible to fade the brakes under hard spirited street driving. So can you please explain to me how the SE brakes on my car would be better? I already have more braking than my tires can handle, and than I need, so where's the difference?

Lol, that doesn't matter. The stock EGI will not make that much power will it? Not that I've heard anyways. As I understand it, dollar for dollar the difference between the 12A and 13B is reduced when the normal bolt-on's are done (exhaust, intake.)

Ok fine, but was it a no-option, weight-reduced car with street/race brake pads? Because that's what I'm talking about - a car that is modified for performance.

I understand that you could pull all of that out of an SE, and end up with a GS with 13B and better components, or vice-versa by adding the SE components to the GS. Obviously that will negate most of my argument. But are most SE guys ready to do that? Isn't that part of the SE's character, all the options, interior, etc?

My point here, is that the modded SE's I've encountered are not so much faster than modded GS's as all that, in my experience.

I'll be the first to admit that the stock 12A cars are not the quickest, nor the fastest stopping, but with minor mods that goes away to a large extent.

mwpayne

Right, I couldn't tell any difference in braking, but I only drove the SE a few miles. BIG difference in power and I think the overall ride was better, too. Could just be me, though.
I'd be fun to put a different carb on mine to see the difference, but I wouldn't know where to start, don't know anyone around here I would trust with such a job, either. Still lookin' for an SE!

SilverRocket

That's true - I have no doubt that the character of the motors at those power levels are different. That's not really what I was getting at here though - my intuition is that, I'm seeing a few guys talking about how much faster the SE is, and what I'm saying is, spend a few bucks and throw a carb on there, and an RB exhaust, and things will change. There's no need to buy an SE if you want a fast first generation RX-7. Now if you're talking about interior goodies, leather interior and what not, fine, but that's far from what I'm interested in. In fact, I like the interior of my 82 GS much more than the 84-85 interior But this is all my opinion.

HadaGSL-SE

iTrader: (6)

not to be a jerk or anything silver rocket but you keep coming back to leather but im not sure if you know this or not but i believe only about half of the se's had leather seats and not that many have power steering either. my ex se had no ps and no leather and the one I am about to buy doesnt have those either. In fact in all test drives and searches i do i have found only a few with power steering.

Felix Wankel

Mine had them both.

SilverRocket

I stand corrected - I thought all the SE's were fully optioned. I never have paid too much attention to that kinda stuff. I do know that the quoted weight on the SE in significantly higher than the quoted weight on the 81-83 GS.

Maybe I'm getting into this too much lol, I'm just trying to defend the 12A haha. Don't get me wrong; I love all RX-7's, including the SE I'm not trying to knock it, just comment on the apparently underrated abilities of the 12A cars.

Gizmo

I HATE FIRST GEN!!!! EVERYTIME I HEAR FIRST GEN OWNER TALKING ABOUT THEIR CAR I WANT ONE!!!

Manntis

Heck, Silverrocket, if I didn't like the 12A I wouldn't have owned one first

Purple Haze

I sure can't wait to get my 12A.

Junia

I love my first gen. I picked up a 85 GSL about two months ago for free with only 105,000 miles on it. Owner couldn't get it to pass emmisions and had it sitting in his yard for five years. I took my 240sx and a friend(to help me tow the car) but I figured I'd try jump starting it. After five years of sitting it started right up. I love that car. Its in near perfect shape, the only problem is that the paint is faded on the hood and the top of the fenders.

LongDuck

SilverRocket - I think we're comparing apples to oranges in regard to SE power and torque.

I've owned both, an SA22C (80LS) and my current 84SE, and the SE has much more torque at a usable range than the 80 ever dreamed of having. Yes, it's heavier, yes, it's equipped better, and yes, it makes more power with the stock hardware, certainly.

As soon as you start modding the 101bhp 12a engine, you can meet and exceed performance of the STOCK 13b RE-EGI system - but I can still pass emissions. Can you?

I'm a big fan of the simpicity of the 12a carbuerated system - it's easy to manage, but the torque band and overall performance of having 2 additional ports, with variable intake timing via sleeves, EFI, and a lower gear ratio really make for a great package. And you get this stuff in the STOCK trim on an SE.

If you add up the costs of putting LSD, 4-wheel vented disks, 3.909 rear gears, etc. on a 12a, you're going to fall short, and after this, you're only going to MEET the performance of an SE. You have to make intake and exhaust mods to EXCEED the performance of a stock SE.

Weight issue intact - the SE is not that much heavier, and since some of that additional weight generates more power (intake, EGI manifolding, '6'-porting, etc.), the weight becomes less and less of an issue.

My opinion, only.

Rex4Life

Wow, guess I should have mentioned Stock vs. Stock--I also need my car to pass emissions.

In regards to the better brakes, the SE also has better tires--more rubber means you can apply more braking. Of course you could put bigger tires on the 12a but it's not stock.

The '84 brochure curb weights with 5 speed and a/c are:

12a = 2380 lbs
SE = 2512 lbs

So the SE is about 5% heavier with 34% more hp.

FYI the only SE option listed was leather interior--although surely they had other special order options.