Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

For all those interested in having your stock ecu on your se reprogrammed. the place that does it is Jet Performance. 714-848-5515, thier web site is www.jetchip.com. They will probably redirect you to someone in your area that is an distributor. I would recommend that you contact them and talk to them first to
see what gains they will get you. You will probably want to do all your mods, such as header system, etc, before you get it programmed. Now i have not had this done myself yet, i am still debating on upgrading to gen 2 induction/injection system and using 2nd gen computer or possible stand alone hal-tech or piggy back
alone for air -fuel mixture. Remember that if you put more air into the 13b 6port se's and don't recalibrate the afm or have the computer redone, it will dump fuel
like a tanker. If you really want to make some hp and don't mind doing some swapping, i recommend putting an s4 non-turbo intake and t/body on your se.
However if you do not use a piggy back computer to manage the fuel it will use fuel to the tune of about 8mpg. It is a very simple swap to do. With the second gen update you can either use the 2 se injectors or switch completley over to the
4 lower cc injectors as long as you use the 2nd gen afm and piggy back computer
to control pulse width of injectors. rx7doctor

GavinJuice

I've read that swapping to a second gen afm is not worth it. They run off of a different voltage than the gsl-se's ecu. Also the size difference is not especially any larger. Someone posted a site, or i walked across it with someone trying to rig a 2nd gen afm with a gsl-se. Anyone?

Felgar

Cool info Dr... It's highly relevant to me due to my oversized injectors... I know I'm running WAY rich right now. Do you think it's a better way to go than a Megasquirt and ditching the afm altogether? That's sort of what I had in mind...

With the heavy porting my SE has I've been told that the afm is now my bottleneck and there's no question that I need more air right now.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

That is incorrect. The SE computer automatically compensates for more air, and gives
the appropriate amount of fuel. That's why it has an AFM in the first place.

It doesn't work with a speed/density like a Haltech, where it calculates the amount of
air it "thinks went in the engine."

The AFM, though limited somewhat, measures EXACLTY how much air goes into the
engine, and calculates the appropriate fuel mixture.

I used to own a GSL-SE with a street-port and all the bolt ons, that ran mid 14's,
using the stock fuel injection.

The 2nd gens have this same setup, and that is why they are harder to upgrade the
fuel injection system, without upgrading or replacing the entire system.

Oh, and Jet performance won't be able to do squat with the GSL-SE's simple and analog ECU.

web777

Correct, your AFM is your bottleneck. With the 2nd gen AFM, it might increase top end but it would run like crap everywhere else.

I kinda of interested how Jetchip can get more hp with the AFM still being a bottleneck.

Felgar

With the megasquirt I had it in my mind that I'd completely remove the afm, not replace it with any other. Am I off-track here Web?

web777

Yes, with Megasquirt you can get rid of the AFM since it uses a MAP sensor. I was thinking of getting that myself if my AIC doesn't work.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Ok guys you have got off track. no where does it say that to use 2nd gen afm.
The se's injection system is a continuous injection system, the afm does not automatically adjust when you induce lots of extra air. The 2nd gen induction system is much larger, the t-body is way larger than the 1st and the intake tubes and dynamic chamber are larger and redesigned for more air flow. The afm is larger
also, thats why they make 11 hp more than se's. I have personally used the 2nd
gen t/body/induction system on my se with avery noticeable increase in power from off idle to top end. the problem was the computer could not handle the air intake coming in and adjust mixture, with the capacity of the large injectors and
extra air coming in it liked it but the mileage suffered. If you piad attention to the post i stated that with this you needed to run either a stand alone ecu or a piggy back to control the injectors and you can also recalibrate your afm at the same time. If you use the 2nd gen ecu which is alot of work you can run the stock 4 injectors and get 11hp but at a very labor intensive cost. I recommedn a stand alone or piggyback to increase your hp and still retain mpg. I also said i do not
have any experience with jet products but do know they reprogram rx7 ecu's and
recommended that you talk to them first to find out what they can offer. Remember to read the facts i posted first before you guys get your rotors in a twist
lol. rx7doctor Ps. remember the doc does not ever do anything or state anything
without having personally tried it or researched it first.

Brianhsval

Ok Doc I am confused now. If the ECU doesn't compensate for more air, then what is teh purpose of the AFM in the first place? Why would the ECU need to know the amount of air if it did not make adjustments?

Don't take this the wrong way either. I am not being a smart ***, just want clearification.

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

The afm mesaures the amount coming in and sends a signal to the computer, unfortuneatly
the se computer cannot handle this info properly because of the way it was engineered.
The stock ecu is only calibrated for the way it was initially set up from the factory. Thats why
you have to reset the afm or use a stand alone or piggy back to get it to run correctly if you do major mods or like putting the 2nd gen system on. Make sense? sorry if i have confused
people. To above statement about measuring, it does handle stock air input correctly because it is calibrated for x amount. rx7doctor

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Sorry Doc, but I wholeheartedly disagree.

I guess you missed this part earlier:

The stock SE injection, and injectors obviously handled ALOT more air than regular factory settings. My car was quicker than Turbo II's.

BTW, I didn't have to do a single thing to the fuel injection. It compensated for it via the AFM.
-------------------------
You said you ran a 2nd gen intake on your SE. What AFM did you use? 1st gen or 2nd Gen? Pics?

Mills

iTrader: (1)

I don't know of anyone that's put a 2nd gen AFM on an SE with good results. I've got an S4 intake manifold and throttle body (modded) on mine with stock ports and fuel injection.

It's using a lot more gas than it used too, so yeah, I think the ECU is compensating OK. If I could get more air into it I'm sure it would run very fast, it's already much faster than before-especially between 5500-7000rpm.

I've heard the ECU/AFM is putting out full fuel output by 4500 rpms-I think more air would help more than more gas...

Mills

iTrader: (1)

Here's a pic of my setup:

Felgar

Nice engine bay Mills... Tough to keep an engine bay that clean.

Feds

The afm is the bottleneck. Only as much air as can flow through your afm at a given vacuum level will make it to your engine.

For the $$, popping in a Megasquirt, ditching your AFM, THEN putting on a larger TB is the way to go. Aside from eliminating the bottleneck, you can re-map your engine when you put more/better stuff on your car, rather than being stuck with your JET upgrade.

Also, IIRC, the GSL-SE ECU only modifies fuel maps based on O2 sensor feedback when the car is in 5th gear and not at full throttle.

nekky

Good info, keep it coming.

Nice engine bay, Mills. Really nice.

Zac