snake eyes<l><l>

i was thinking along the same lines, but i think fitting it wont be that bad compared to fitting a fd 13b, do u plan to port it also? im sure u could get a streetport to pass the sniffer. Also, when u get done, u gotta enter the SCC car contest! lol

Good luck and keep us posted

<l><l>

1stRX8

I am using all the stock RX-8 harness and ECU. No real brain surgury there. I do have A LOT of electronics experience to deal with the minor things like tach pulses, ABS, TCS, etc. I also have an RX-8 that I have been studying quite diligently. The ECU is in the engine compartment of an 8. VERY convienient for a swap! I will use the drive by wire pedal assy. from the 8. I don't want to reinvent that. To maintain legal emissions, I HAVE to keep the majority of it stock - only a high temp aftermarket cat.

As far as the mechanical - I REALLY have that covered. Between my shop and Valkerie (next door to me). My company has an in house CNC machine shop. Handy for this project for sure. I intend to use the stock mount points and fabricate brackets out of 304 SS.

I will cut large portions of non-structural chassis out and replace with light gauge aluminum sheets or fiberglass. I want this car to be LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT. The roll cage should provide enough structure to remove LOTS of sheet metal.

The budget is $25k+. There are three paid professionals and myself working on it. I am having wrist surgury on 01/14, so I will be physically useless for most of the project. I will guide the guys (Porche builders) on the rotary specific stuff and they will guide me on chassis issues.

I will take a short series of pics when I deliver the car to Valkerie. For reference I will include some RENESIS pics.
I expect it will be fast AND look good.

1stRX8

The RENESIS breathes VERY well compared to ANY other rotary design. Other than polishing and port matching - I would not expect big gains. I have not heard of anyone doing port work on the RENESIS yet. Getting it in and working is enough of a challenge for now. when I chunk the motor down the road I might do that.

As it stands - getting 280+ hp will not be difficult. I am hoping for well under 2200lbs (800lbs lighter than the RX-8).

I could only hope for a mention in SCC.

1stRX8

Snake eyes

I just noticed you are in my area. If you want stop by a check progress in person, you are welcome to do that.

snake eyes<l><l>

sweet, what side ya on? u gotta come tell us at the houston club meets

<l><l>

edit: oh and btw, do u still have the -se fuel pump perchance? i need it for my project as well lol

1stRX8

snake eyes

check your PM's

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

1st RX-8, way to make an entrance to the Forum! I agree with Longduck all the way. Although you guys seem very knowledgeable, please remember that the RX-8 engine is a very new and complicated machine to run.

Are you sure you wouldn't rather just go with a Turbo system like AJC13B's old car?

Roddimus Prime

Just throwing this out, but if I remember correctly the tranny in the RX-8 is the same as in the miata. This should not pose a problem if you need to save a little money for tranny.

I see $$$ being the only problem in making this work. The motor is great, the tranny is great. the car already handles well. All you've got to do is peice it together. Good luck.

MosesX605

1stRX8, if you are really serious about suspension for your car, don't go to Ground Control. Instead look up Jim Susko at G-Force Engineering. He comes VERY highly recommended by the serious racers on the board and he's a really nice guy to boot.

I would also suggest that you swap out transmissions for the TII 5-speed, leaving the SE tranny in could be asking for trouble.

1stRX8

I really want an NA engine. I want this car to be very reliable in addition to powerful.

Copy that. Can he make a STREET car? It is not really a race car, so the suspension can only go so far.

I think you are correct. I might opt for the RX-8 tranny. 6sp. I know the TII's are ok AND there is current info on the install.

I would be a fool if I thought I will get through this without a few bumps in the rug. Electronics will Certainly be the biggest single hurdle. Mazda has not yet made the technical manual available to the general public. My local dealer said it will not be long though. If I really get stuck. I will throw a party for all the RX-x club and offer prize money to the one who figures it out. That will move things along!

It's nice to see interest in this project with a car that just turned 20!

MosesX605

I can say with no hyperbole that Mr. Susko knows probably everything there is to know about the suspensions of our cars. The best part is that he will talk to you personally about your needs and recommend what he thinks is the proper setup. Ground Control, on the other hand, doesn't even have a ******* clue what's on their own website. I came away from dealing with them with a bad taste in my mouth.

2GSLSE

iTrader: (6)

I wouldn't worry too much about the emmisions system you don't have to meet the 2004 standards only the year of the car which is 1984 in this case(it may even pass w/o a cat converter due to better control of fuel and timng)

setzep

I woulden't worry about the -se trans, it should do the job. You say you aren't going to drag race it and the renesis doesn't make a lot of torque. Torque and shock is the killer for transmissions, not hp.

Cool project, can't wait for the pic's

WackyRotary

I haven't actually broke my 12a tranny yet with the s4 turbo and 8psi on the 12a streetport, so I bet a "Renesis" should handle it with its low non-turbo torque.

I think it has more to do with tires and traction. If it hooked up when it should and stay hooked up, I know tranny and rearend components would fail more quickly. Only thing I've broke was the front main bearing on the tranny, and its cheaper to get another used tranny then buy the $100+ bearing for it!

I think it will be hard to find a bad 13b RX-8 engine(I hate calling it "renesis") because the N/a engines from the S4 and S5's were pretty damn reliable, so that means these new '04 rotaries should be even more durable for long life, and good in a FB. And better yet, they can take 9000rpm!! So the performance numbers for a RX-8: 5.9 0-60, and a 14.5-1/4mile, should be a bit better with the FB's lighter weight.

revn247

Please post a good write up. I'm planning on doing the same swap for my 85 SE. Just not as radical as you are. I'm gonna keep it streetable w/ some track/autox use. I'm sure others would like specs on the engine bracket, etc. Good Luck w/ your project! That thing is gonna FLY!

hornbm

Good luck man. I deal with the renesis day in and day out. I got a couple quick questions for ya, dont know if you've considered the answer.

Are you planning to use the stock ECU, or mabey a haltech instead? The good news about the stock ECU is it mounts in the engine bay, so you dont have to deal with wiring it into the passenger kick pannel.

The renesis features a returnless fuel system. Are you going to keep it this way, or convert it to a return style so you have better controol over the fuel system?

The renesis throttle body is a fly by wire unit, how do you plan to tackle this? Paul Yaw converted it to a traditonal cable style one.

How do you plan on mounting it? I'm not totally sure, but I dont think our front covers bolt onto the renesis. I believe it has an extra bolt much like the 13B-REW.

What about the oil pan? Even if our front covers worked on the motor, the rx8 oil pan wouldnt work in conjunction with it. Its a VERY shallow oil pan.

The starter on the RX8 is on the engine side, rather than on the tranny like the RX7. What do you plan to do about it?

The renesis sits VERY low in the rx8 engine bay. So low that its easier to change the spark plugs with it up in the air. As a result the intake looks pretty damn tall. I'm not sure it would fit in our engine bay and still clear the steering rack.


These to me seem to be the main hurdles with putting a renesis in a first gen. Again GOOD LUCK man.

speed7

I too have wanted to do this since I read about the Renises back in 98 from Sport Compact car. Still have my car! =D So I'll be doing that too! But I awaite your report, good luck to ya man.

1stRX8

Very good questions....
Stock ECU, primarily for emissions and ease of initial install. In the UNLIKELY case that I feel the swap itself was easy, I may tackle a Haltech. The stock ECU with a simple piggyback is quite nice.

Most likely a typical return system.
I expect to use the "wire" system via the RX-8 pedal assy. I will put some effort into it. If it feels impossible, I will fab a cable system of some sort.
I plan to use the stock engine points and modify the 7 to accept it. That probably means rebuilding the cross bar that the motor a A-arms attach to. It will be many hours of intricate fabrication for that to happen. While doing so, I may try to incorporate the electric assist from the 8 because my left hand is handicap. Time is on my side.
This is OK. I will mount the engine as low as possible since I am building the cross brace / motor mounts from scratch anyway.
I hope i am lucky! I can't see it well enough to have an intelligent plan. I was thinking a BIG hammer and some silver duct tape should be OK.
See above. I am fabbing [or having fabbed] a fiber glass hood. I may need to bubble it a bit for fitment. I am reasonably confident that I will be able to mount it low enough to avoid that.
Target is more than 800lbs lighter than the 8. I will try the math to estimate acceleration. High 4's 0-60?? Probably better - A stock FD - 255hp/2850lbs 0-60 in 5.0. This car est.2200lbs/280+hp. Ohhhhhh Yeah!

GREAT comments and suggestions. Thank you. The web site is registered for the project. It will be ready in a few days.

http://www.1bad7.com
Pics on Tuesday 01/13

speed7

Eh not to argue, but I've driven an Rx8 and I have a stock Rx7. Unless you plan on making the cars footprint considerably larger then the stock 7 I don't think you'll beat out a stock FD. Don't get me wrong its going to be an AWESOME car but the power on the 8 is towards the end of the powerband were as the power on an FD starts alot sooner. Around 3k since the turbo's. And going back to my "footprint" comment. The tires are wider on an FD vs an FB. So you can lay more power down.

Again not to argue but just my 2cp. Good luck on the car its going to be the first of many in my eyes.

hornbm

You also might want to see what was different in the renesis that was in the RX-EVOLV concept car. The power rating for that was 280HP. Since its the same basic motor, it makes sence that you would be able to get above 280 if you mod the mod the car right.

Also after driving the rx8 numerous times, it really lacks torque. Just for ***** and giggles, ya might try with the idea of a small supercharger to get that thing to get up and go faster. The rx8 doesnt really seem to make much power till you get around 5K or so.

I mean your going all out on this, so why not see if you can help the torque while your at it?

1stRX8

The wheels on the rear will be somthing like 245/45-17 on 17x8.5's. Somewhere in that range. I will have a mild wide body fender to accept them OR machine custom hubs and tub the wheel wells to maintain stock lines. I don't really like the wide body kits. I certainly don't want traction to be an issue after spending $15k getting a boat load of power. And yes, all the power is 5k+. The answer to the accell. will come 5 or so months from now when this car is on the road. No since in guessing - just dreaming for now. Still 650lbs lighter than a stock FD.

1stRX8

No Forced Induction. If I simply wanted HP, I could do a SWEET modded TII swap for a fraction of the cost and get 300hp and more torque. NA all the way.

Doeas anyone have tips on sleepy eyes for the head lamps? has it already been done, or do I have to invent it? Please say it already exists.

speed7

True, power vs weight ratio is a huge consideration. Hence motorcycles.. they always win and don't have nearly as much power. I'm with you on the widebody kits though, the car is perfect and the stock look is nice. The only kit I really like is the one from Mariah

http://www.mariahmotorsports.com/ima...r/m4silv1a.jpg

We all like to dream, hell a 280hp street legel NA Rx7 is something all us rotor heads like to hear.

speed7

What do you mean by sleepy eyes? You looking for air to get into the engine bay or are you looking for the cosmetic 4 headlight system?

1984special

You mean like this?

I don't think there is a full kit out there because of the inherent dangers of modifying your lighting system. Should be lots of info on the forum if you do a quick search.