renesis on 1st gen
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Wrkn Toyota, Rootn Wankel
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From: "Haystack" Hayward, CA
Yes it is possible to use a RX8 13b AKA Renesis engine swap in your car and have it pass smog.
The engine must have all the emmisions equipment that came with it in the orginal car for it to pass smog. Also, since the engine will be from a car that is older than yours it is a legal CA engine swap.
BTW This is an idea I wish to pursue as well, so let me know if you need some help?
The engine must have all the emmisions equipment that came with it in the orginal car for it to pass smog. Also, since the engine will be from a car that is older than yours it is a legal CA engine swap.
BTW This is an idea I wish to pursue as well, so let me know if you need some help?
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How much longer is a Renesis than a 13B? I'm thinking you could swap in a GSL-SE crossmember and use the RB front mount bar. Each of these is good for 20mm of forward length. If a Renesis is 20mm longer than a 13B, this could work.
It allows a 13B to fit in a 12A chassis. The Renesis, however, is longer than a 13B and I don't know how well a 1st gen front cover will fit. Also you're on your own for an oil pan solution.
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From: Rancho Cucamonga
I know but isnt the oil pan on the renesis flat now? Im thinking of just making custom mounts but i have to wait till my renesis gets here so i can build some ideas. I know it's alot of work and pain but Im so excited to do this build.My goal is to have a smog legal 1st gen with a renesis bone stock.
im doing this same project...
you will, either have to cut 2 oil pans from a 12a and extend them to make one. or custom fab one up. the renesis is about 2 inches longer than a 13b. the 12a front cover will work just fine. so using the stock 12a mount it good too. you can use whatever tranny you want...they will all fit.
oh, if your swapping to a 12a front cover...remeber to swap the timing gear because the renesis ones turns in reverse. a 12a or 13b one just slips on in its place. then you can use a 2nd gen CAS too. makes this swap a whole lot easier.
you using a 4 port or 6 port? all stock manifolds or what? ignition system? ECU?
you will, either have to cut 2 oil pans from a 12a and extend them to make one. or custom fab one up. the renesis is about 2 inches longer than a 13b. the 12a front cover will work just fine. so using the stock 12a mount it good too. you can use whatever tranny you want...they will all fit.
oh, if your swapping to a 12a front cover...remeber to swap the timing gear because the renesis ones turns in reverse. a 12a or 13b one just slips on in its place. then you can use a 2nd gen CAS too. makes this swap a whole lot easier.
you using a 4 port or 6 port? all stock manifolds or what? ignition system? ECU?
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From: Rancho Cucamonga
6 port with stock manifolds and stock ecu. Im trying to stay mostly stock on this one and i just bought all the harness from a wrecked rx8. Im aware of the multiplexing of the wires and it will be a challange, Im also going to use the factory drive by wire throttle. As an infiniti technician we use the CAN communications as well and they're not much different from each other, as long as i have most of the stock harness it will work.
rotarygod made a valuable point about the Renesis. Mazda recently added a third oil injector to each rotor housing for the '09 models, in a triangle arrangment. The basic story is the current dual injectors per housing, each at an outside edge, is inadequate so you're going to want to premix for engine longevity because the middle of the apex seal is where the heat builds up, and adequate lubrication is basically lacking here due to the location of the oil injectors. The 3rd injector solves this.
The point here is even if you choose a GSL-SE front cover, and use the 4-ouput OMP, and plumb them to the four stock oil injectors, count on premixing a small amount as well.
I don't know the cc per minute of GSL-SE vs late 12A vs early 12A and carbed 13B, but it's been suggested the early OMPs with the shorter nipples output more volume, and I'd suspect the GSL-SE actually has the same volume on all four as the later long nipple 12A OMPs on just two lines.
I wouldn't even bother suggesting this but you mentioned something about using the CAN system of the RX-8, having already some prepping for it, so I assume you're going to use the stock OMP stepper motor and try to figure out a way to adapt it to the 1st gen front cover and OMP. Or something like that.
If it was me, I'd probably ditch the die by wire, PCM fuel pump and a lot of the other new stuff and go with slightly older tried and true EFI parts that have withstood the test of time. Oh well. Solve the engine installation and oil pan stuff first.
The point here is even if you choose a GSL-SE front cover, and use the 4-ouput OMP, and plumb them to the four stock oil injectors, count on premixing a small amount as well.
I don't know the cc per minute of GSL-SE vs late 12A vs early 12A and carbed 13B, but it's been suggested the early OMPs with the shorter nipples output more volume, and I'd suspect the GSL-SE actually has the same volume on all four as the later long nipple 12A OMPs on just two lines.
I wouldn't even bother suggesting this but you mentioned something about using the CAN system of the RX-8, having already some prepping for it, so I assume you're going to use the stock OMP stepper motor and try to figure out a way to adapt it to the 1st gen front cover and OMP. Or something like that.
If it was me, I'd probably ditch the die by wire, PCM fuel pump and a lot of the other new stuff and go with slightly older tried and true EFI parts that have withstood the test of time. Oh well. Solve the engine installation and oil pan stuff first.
as jeff20b stated, you'll have to rig something if you plan on using the fly by wire and stock oil metering system.
also, are you just going to cap the hole one the front cover for the CAS? or whats your plan there?
its easy to make a throttle cable system to adapt to the stock throttle system. but then the stock ECU would not like that either...
also, are you just going to cap the hole one the front cover for the CAS? or whats your plan there?
its easy to make a throttle cable system to adapt to the stock throttle system. but then the stock ECU would not like that either...
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From: Rancho Cucamonga
i changed my mind about the gsl se front cover as I looked more into it,it would change too much of the engine assembly and too much work but im still sticking with the drive by wire throttle. I think a complete rx8 transpalant would be easier then adding a cable throttle, for it will require a different engine management...I think Im going to make some custom engine mounts and as for trying to clear the steering linkages i will working on that. First, I did think about putting the complete front cross member of the rx8 and suspension since it's been done before but I dont have enough equipment to do this kind of fabrication. I cant do much right now since im working on stripping the body for paint but as soon as i get my hands on putting the engine in, i will post some pics.
