Rack and Pinion - Why is this a bad idea?
05-30-17, 12:52 PM
#1
Rack and Pinion - Why is this a bad idea?
The car is my 84 gsl-se crapcan enduro racer.
I know the rack and pinion discussion has been done to death but providing I don't care at all about stock placement or fit, and have access to a friend who can weld any new bracketry needed, please let me know why the following would be a bad idea?
What if I purchased a rear steer rack for a hot rod application
Fabbed some brackets to mount it to the front crossmember
and then purchased a generic steering column kit like this
I have done a fair amount of random custom fab work so minus the nitty griddy of mounting and fitting are there any basic problems I'm not thinking of?
Generally I assume width can be taken care of with shorter/longer tie rod adjusters.
I know the rack and pinion discussion has been done to death but providing I don't care at all about stock placement or fit, and have access to a friend who can weld any new bracketry needed, please let me know why the following would be a bad idea?
What if I purchased a rear steer rack for a hot rod application
Fabbed some brackets to mount it to the front crossmember
and then purchased a generic steering column kit like this
I have done a fair amount of random custom fab work so minus the nitty griddy of mounting and fitting are there any basic problems I'm not thinking of?
Generally I assume width can be taken care of with shorter/longer tie rod adjusters.
05-30-17, 03:59 PM
#3
Sitting at my desk and thinking though, the stock center steering link sits directly under the oil pan. A proper rack will be quite a bit thicker and have to fit in approx the same location. I am beginning to think it might be difficult to get the rack in an even horizontal plain to the steering knuckles... Maybe I'll take a trip under my car.
05-30-17, 06:41 PM
#4
This guy did the same thing.
Only issues I would be uncomfortable with are the multiple twists of the steering column and the rack would be the lowest point at the front. Both shouldn't be that big of a deal with a lot of planning.
Only issues I would be uncomfortable with are the multiple twists of the steering column and the rack would be the lowest point at the front. Both shouldn't be that big of a deal with a lot of planning.
05-31-17, 08:15 AM
#5
This guy did the same thing.
Only issues I would be uncomfortable with are the multiple twists of the steering column and the rack would be the lowest point at the front. Both shouldn't be that big of a deal with a lot of planning.
Only issues I would be uncomfortable with are the multiple twists of the steering column and the rack would be the lowest point at the front. Both shouldn't be that big of a deal with a lot of planning.
I will post up if I decide to undergo the project. This might be down in the priority list.
06-06-17, 07:10 PM
#6
I have seen this done with good results, so it is feasible, AND you don't have to fab a steering column if you use the steering column from a 84 or 85 as I understand it has a flange that anchors it to the firewall on these models so you can situate the universal joints without additional brackets. The linkage on the one I saw was very close to the bottom of the engine on the drivers side but the owner told me that it was not an issue. If I decide to build another track car it is the set up I plan to use. You will need a rack that is the same width as the center link of the stock setup in order to avoid bump steer with the input shaft as far to the left as possible to clear the left side of the engine, so research will be needed.
Last edited by rwatson5651; 06-06-17 at 07:22 PM.
06-12-17, 09:31 AM
#7
Yeah as long as you can get a rack that is the same width pivot to pivot as the control arms (or move the control arm mounting points which wouldn't be that hard either) then you won't have bump steer issues. As said above, this is not a bad idea, assuming you know how to fab things!
A manual rack isn't *that* much thicker than the stock steering's center link, so you should be able to fit it under there. Plus the unit itself isn't moving around, like the stock link/pitman/idler arm setup is (which goes through an arc and needs quite a bit of room to move around) so you can get it pretty snug up under the engine if needed, as long as the engine isn't going to move enough to hit it. Could also raise the engine slightly if needed, to give the extra room.
Before I decided to just FC subframe swap my remaining FB (that makes 3 now with FC subframes, ya think I like that setup?! lol) I was looking at doing an ~86 Civic rack. They're rear steer, and the width is darn close (I believe it's 3/4" wider than the FB from pivot to pivot, so I was going to move each control arm mounting hole out 3/8" to make it match. Would give some extra negative camber too!) and there was actually someone on here doing that swap as well so I believe it could work, but again, I went another route..
A manual rack isn't *that* much thicker than the stock steering's center link, so you should be able to fit it under there. Plus the unit itself isn't moving around, like the stock link/pitman/idler arm setup is (which goes through an arc and needs quite a bit of room to move around) so you can get it pretty snug up under the engine if needed, as long as the engine isn't going to move enough to hit it. Could also raise the engine slightly if needed, to give the extra room.
Before I decided to just FC subframe swap my remaining FB (that makes 3 now with FC subframes, ya think I like that setup?! lol) I was looking at doing an ~86 Civic rack. They're rear steer, and the width is darn close (I believe it's 3/4" wider than the FB from pivot to pivot, so I was going to move each control arm mounting hole out 3/8" to make it match. Would give some extra negative camber too!) and there was actually someone on here doing that swap as well so I believe it could work, but again, I went another route..
Last edited by 82transam; 06-12-17 at 09:41 AM.
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06-12-17, 07:57 PM
#8
www.AusRotary.com
This guy did the same thing.
Only issues I would be uncomfortable with are the multiple twists of the steering column and the rack would be the lowest point at the front. Both shouldn't be that big of a deal with a lot of planning.
Only issues I would be uncomfortable with are the multiple twists of the steering column and the rack would be the lowest point at the front. Both shouldn't be that big of a deal with a lot of planning.
FWIW, the Holden Barina rack is the same as an Opel/Vauxhall Corsa. I don't know whether they were exported to the US, but the rack is available as a LHD version for continental Europe.
Also, this particular model featured a manual rack and electronic power assisted steering (EPAS), using a small computer controlled motor on the steering column itself (inside the vehicle). The Corsa EPAS columns are very popular conversions for rally and autocross cars and there are aftermarket controllers available so you can adjust the level assistance at different vehicle speeds. I was going to use one of this in my 1st gen, but opted not to because it would have been more difficult to get the conversion certificated for road use. In the end, I opted for a series 5 RX7 turbo power rack with electronic hydraulic power steering system (EHPS), which uses an electric pump in lieu of the belt-driven one. Coincidentally, I sourced this EHPS pump from another Opel, the Opel Astra (rebadged in Australia as a Holden Astra).
Last edited by KYPREO; 06-12-17 at 08:16 PM. Reason: spelling
06-13-17, 11:53 AM
#9
Yeah as long as you can get a rack that is the same width pivot to pivot as the control arms (or move the control arm mounting points which wouldn't be that hard either) then you won't have bump steer issues. As said above, this is not a bad idea, assuming you know how to fab things!
A manual rack isn't *that* much thicker than the stock steering's center link, so you should be able to fit it under there. Plus the unit itself isn't moving around, like the stock link/pitman/idler arm setup is (which goes through an arc and needs quite a bit of room to move around) so you can get it pretty snug up under the engine if needed, as long as the engine isn't going to move enough to hit it. Could also raise the engine slightly if needed, to give the extra room.
Before I decided to just FC subframe swap my remaining FB (that makes 3 now with FC subframes, ya think I like that setup?! lol) I was looking at doing an ~86 Civic rack. They're rear steer, and the width is darn close (I believe it's 3/4" wider than the FB from pivot to pivot, so I was going to move each control arm mounting hole out 3/8" to make it match. Would give some extra negative camber too!) and there was actually someone on here doing that swap as well so I believe it could work, but again, I went another route..
A manual rack isn't *that* much thicker than the stock steering's center link, so you should be able to fit it under there. Plus the unit itself isn't moving around, like the stock link/pitman/idler arm setup is (which goes through an arc and needs quite a bit of room to move around) so you can get it pretty snug up under the engine if needed, as long as the engine isn't going to move enough to hit it. Could also raise the engine slightly if needed, to give the extra room.
Before I decided to just FC subframe swap my remaining FB (that makes 3 now with FC subframes, ya think I like that setup?! lol) I was looking at doing an ~86 Civic rack. They're rear steer, and the width is darn close (I believe it's 3/4" wider than the FB from pivot to pivot, so I was going to move each control arm mounting hole out 3/8" to make it match. Would give some extra negative camber too!) and there was actually someone on here doing that swap as well so I believe it could work, but again, I went another route..
But look, I have just decided to go the FC subframe route. It gives me r&p, big brakes, and struts you can actually buy.