Racing Beat exhaust dyno compairisons
05-05-09, 12:09 AM
#78
Lurking on thread near U
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So since Saturday I've been really excited that it did 189. All happy walking around with a smile, but now it's settling in and I'm a little disappointed. Only 10.35 more whp until I crack 200. I need 200, I need it, damn it, I need it nooooowwww! lol rotaries are like crack I tell you.
bigger venturies, re jet, new spark plugs might get you ten, oh and some royal purple 5w. You can do it!
10 more hp should be doable, you gotta go and look at everything. is the air filter big enough? cap and rotor? race plugs might help you at this point too. lighter oils would help too, the competition prep book recommends 30 weight oil.
dunno if you wanna get this nuts but the spec miata people do a lot of work on reducing drivetrain losses, you know you're nuts when you're swapping transmissions and then dragging the car around with a fish scale....
dunno if you wanna get this nuts but the spec miata people do a lot of work on reducing drivetrain losses, you know you're nuts when you're swapping transmissions and then dragging the car around with a fish scale....
I really don't mind a constructive argument about performance, but please don't resort to flaming and name calling, it's not very mature.
05-05-09, 12:37 AM
#79
Well for another 10whp I don't feel that anything is too much work. Most of the changes we discussedl are consumable parts that will be replaced anyway. I race my car in the local AutoX points series, so every single whp counts for me. Any single thing that can give me the competitive edge is worth the work. You needed to be more specific, with your post. I had no way of knowing you were refering to a side discussion that accured and not refering to the actual thread topic.
The following users liked this post:
Rx7fb spirit r (03-18-20)
05-08-09, 01:54 PM
#86
The exhaust is the single most important thing when it comes to making power. I don't care how good everything else is, including the port job, without a good exhaust, your power will suffer. Strangely many people sit there all day and think about things they can do to the intake to increase power yet ignore the exhaust. True it's harder to mess with and more costly, but the rewards can definitely be worth it and ultimately much cheaper per hp gained than with any other mod. This thread is a great example of that.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that RB exhausts suck. That muffler cutaway photo looks to be a very old RB muffler. I had one that was much newer and mine was not like that internally. Mine went from a single inlet to dual outlets but the perforated cores of the muffler itself is where the split was. I could run a string right in one of the outlets and it would go right through to the inlet. It was a decent flowing muffler. The inlet was a 2.5" but the weld at the flange reduced the effective size down to 2.25" or so. It was a very noticable gain over stock and still very quiet. However it wasn't the most powerful system available. It also isn't the lightest or the cheapest. I would never say it sucks though. I'd say it fills a certain segment of the market.
ISC's expansion chamber may work but looking at the pictures it really doesn't appear to be designed or built terribly well. I"m not saying it still doesn't work though. I'm sure it does. I'm willing to bet that you could build a very similar setup with better components and a better merge collector and get even better results yet. Changing the primary lengths around a little bit could also help. I don't see why a little exhaust work couldn't still get you that last 10 hp you're looking for. I wouldn't worry about the intake. While there may be more to be had out of it, I'd be willing to bet it already has the airflow capability to hit 200 rwhp. The problem is that when you get to a certain power level na, it takes alot more effort to get just a little more.
As far as equal length headers go, equal isn't always equal and inequal length may be optimal. Why would I say that? First off we need to understand that header tuning is based off of the speed of sound within the pipes. We are tuning around frequencies. However any small differences in porting, fuel distribution, inhtake length, etc will affect the power output between rotors. It may not be much. It may only be a hp or 2. However the important thing would be to monitor the exhaust temps of each individual exhaust pipe. If we have a 1600* peak exhaust temp on one rotor but a 1500* peak exhaust temp on the other, the speed of sound within the pipes will be different than each other and hence the tuning of those pipes. In this case if we had a true equal length header, the tuning of the pipe with the 1500* temp would be nearly 700 rpm lower than the other pipe! This would mean that the pipe with the lower temp would in actuality have to be shorter than the other one to have the same "effective" length and this is what is most important. Actual length isn't what is critical. Effective length is.
Now we get into other issues. If there is an inequality such as this in our engines, and there is with any intake that does not have equal length runners, the fact that one rotor runs hotter than the other at one rpm and load doesn't necessarily mean the same will always hold true. The stock 3rd gen intake manifold is a prime example. At some rpms and loads the front rotor will run leaner than the back yet at other loads and rpms it will run richer. This would mean that with a header, sometimes one pipe would be tuned higher and other other times it would be tuned lower than the other. Now we're in a real mess! Of course everything is a compromise so an average may be the best option or favoring one over the other may be the way to go. This is up to the exhaust designer and based on their intended use.
My point to stating all of this is that just because a header is not a true equal length does not make it a bad thing. It may have to be. Get a hold of a dual egt gauge with dual probes and monitor your exhaust temps. If there is a difference, try cross jetting the carb so each one is slightly different to compensate. You may pick up a few hp alone just by doing this. No increase in flow anywhere. Just creative jetting. Then start playing with small changes in exhaust length. You just might be surprised how much more you could potentially still get out of it. Once you rack your brain into oblivion, then ask how injecting water into the exhaust could help power! Have fun!
I wouldn't go so far as to say that RB exhausts suck. That muffler cutaway photo looks to be a very old RB muffler. I had one that was much newer and mine was not like that internally. Mine went from a single inlet to dual outlets but the perforated cores of the muffler itself is where the split was. I could run a string right in one of the outlets and it would go right through to the inlet. It was a decent flowing muffler. The inlet was a 2.5" but the weld at the flange reduced the effective size down to 2.25" or so. It was a very noticable gain over stock and still very quiet. However it wasn't the most powerful system available. It also isn't the lightest or the cheapest. I would never say it sucks though. I'd say it fills a certain segment of the market.
ISC's expansion chamber may work but looking at the pictures it really doesn't appear to be designed or built terribly well. I"m not saying it still doesn't work though. I'm sure it does. I'm willing to bet that you could build a very similar setup with better components and a better merge collector and get even better results yet. Changing the primary lengths around a little bit could also help. I don't see why a little exhaust work couldn't still get you that last 10 hp you're looking for. I wouldn't worry about the intake. While there may be more to be had out of it, I'd be willing to bet it already has the airflow capability to hit 200 rwhp. The problem is that when you get to a certain power level na, it takes alot more effort to get just a little more.
As far as equal length headers go, equal isn't always equal and inequal length may be optimal. Why would I say that? First off we need to understand that header tuning is based off of the speed of sound within the pipes. We are tuning around frequencies. However any small differences in porting, fuel distribution, inhtake length, etc will affect the power output between rotors. It may not be much. It may only be a hp or 2. However the important thing would be to monitor the exhaust temps of each individual exhaust pipe. If we have a 1600* peak exhaust temp on one rotor but a 1500* peak exhaust temp on the other, the speed of sound within the pipes will be different than each other and hence the tuning of those pipes. In this case if we had a true equal length header, the tuning of the pipe with the 1500* temp would be nearly 700 rpm lower than the other pipe! This would mean that the pipe with the lower temp would in actuality have to be shorter than the other one to have the same "effective" length and this is what is most important. Actual length isn't what is critical. Effective length is.
Now we get into other issues. If there is an inequality such as this in our engines, and there is with any intake that does not have equal length runners, the fact that one rotor runs hotter than the other at one rpm and load doesn't necessarily mean the same will always hold true. The stock 3rd gen intake manifold is a prime example. At some rpms and loads the front rotor will run leaner than the back yet at other loads and rpms it will run richer. This would mean that with a header, sometimes one pipe would be tuned higher and other other times it would be tuned lower than the other. Now we're in a real mess! Of course everything is a compromise so an average may be the best option or favoring one over the other may be the way to go. This is up to the exhaust designer and based on their intended use.
My point to stating all of this is that just because a header is not a true equal length does not make it a bad thing. It may have to be. Get a hold of a dual egt gauge with dual probes and monitor your exhaust temps. If there is a difference, try cross jetting the carb so each one is slightly different to compensate. You may pick up a few hp alone just by doing this. No increase in flow anywhere. Just creative jetting. Then start playing with small changes in exhaust length. You just might be surprised how much more you could potentially still get out of it. Once you rack your brain into oblivion, then ask how injecting water into the exhaust could help power! Have fun!
The following users liked this post:
peejay (09-30-18)
05-11-09, 04:11 AM
#88
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: westminster, ca
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
videos ?! so its super loud you say? such a nice exhaust but the parts are extinct. i hate you. i just bought a full racing beat streetport system and im thinking of other alternatives..im even considering returning the RB...what do you think? anybody out there with a GSL-SE with full racing beat exhaust? if so, tell me how it is or post a video even !
05-11-09, 12:49 PM
#91
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
iTrader: (30)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cali Native
Posts: 3,608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's my current setup and it's a blast but I'm looking to change it out soon. Technically not the same setup since I have a replacement for the center section, dont have the RB street port version in the middle.
05-11-09, 01:44 PM
#93
It's starting to sound like the summation should be "RB is not the absolute best you can do, but it's apparently a strong contender for the best bang for your bolt-up buck you're going to find."
Given competent workmanship, a custom-crafted, carefully tuned exhaust setup has a huge potential advantage over off-the-shelf parts, regardless of who made them.
But part of the beauty of off-the-shelf performance parts is that you can simply buy it and bolt it up, with known results.
Given competent workmanship, a custom-crafted, carefully tuned exhaust setup has a huge potential advantage over off-the-shelf parts, regardless of who made them.
But part of the beauty of off-the-shelf performance parts is that you can simply buy it and bolt it up, with known results.
05-11-09, 08:45 PM
#94
It's starting to sound like the summation should be "RB is not the absolute best you can do, but it's apparently a strong contender for the best bang for your bolt-up buck you're going to find."
Given competent workmanship, a custom-crafted, carefully tuned exhaust setup has a huge potential advantage over off-the-shelf parts, regardless of who made them.
But part of the beauty of off-the-shelf performance parts is that you can simply buy it and bolt it up, with known results.
Given competent workmanship, a custom-crafted, carefully tuned exhaust setup has a huge potential advantage over off-the-shelf parts, regardless of who made them.
But part of the beauty of off-the-shelf performance parts is that you can simply buy it and bolt it up, with known results.
Again the point is I made way more power and it was much cheaper than the RB exhasut, and I think it sounds about a million times better and it's lighter. The only thing the RB exhaust offers over mine is it's quieter and it bolts right up for the chump who doesn't actually want to get deep into his car.
05-11-09, 08:54 PM
#95
Agreed, but I still made way more power than the RB exhaust and saved about 40 lbs. lol
Again the point is I made way more power and it was much cheaper than the RB exhasut, and I think it sounds about a million times better and it's lighter. The only thing the RB exhaust offers over mine is it's quieter and it bolts right up for the chump who doesn't actually want to get deep into his car.
Again the point is I made way more power and it was much cheaper than the RB exhasut, and I think it sounds about a million times better and it's lighter. The only thing the RB exhaust offers over mine is it's quieter and it bolts right up for the chump who doesn't actually want to get deep into his car.
+1 thats what I posted before but no one listend
05-11-09, 11:03 PM
#97
Agreed, but I still made way more power than the RB exhaust and saved about 40 lbs. lol
Again the point is I made way more power and it was much cheaper than the RB exhasut, and I think it sounds about a million times better and it's lighter. The only thing the RB exhaust offers over mine is it's quieter and it bolts right up for the chump who doesn't actually want to get deep into his car.
Again the point is I made way more power and it was much cheaper than the RB exhasut, and I think it sounds about a million times better and it's lighter. The only thing the RB exhaust offers over mine is it's quieter and it bolts right up for the chump who doesn't actually want to get deep into his car.
1) you hadn't had access to the old/discontinued parts you used, and
2) you took your fabrication time into account
??
I find that a lot of the stuff I do myself, I flat-out couldn't afford to pay someone else to do. That being the reason I learned auto repair in the first place - - couldn't afford to pay for repairs at the time!
Which means that, for those who do not posess some specific skills, or don't have access to certain tools or equipment (like metal fab gear), the "cheaper" way is actually far beyond their ability to afford.
Is deep, no? Philosophic, even!
05-12-09, 01:52 AM
#98
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: westminster, ca
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed, but I still made way more power than the RB exhaust and saved about 40 lbs. lol
Again the point is I made way more power and it was much cheaper than the RB exhasut, and I think it sounds about a million times better and it's lighter. The only thing the RB exhaust offers over mine is it's quieter and it bolts right up for the chump who doesn't actually want to get deep into his car.
Again the point is I made way more power and it was much cheaper than the RB exhasut, and I think it sounds about a million times better and it's lighter. The only thing the RB exhaust offers over mine is it's quieter and it bolts right up for the chump who doesn't actually want to get deep into his car.
Please post a video, im sure everyone else here wants to compare your muffler to racing beat just as badly as i do
05-13-09, 12:47 AM
#100
You get shitty cell phone videos for now. Tomorrow I'm going to try and do it right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7w48lK9fvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jGFVon0Fc0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7w48lK9fvY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jGFVon0Fc0