REVHED

Yes, provided the engine has the right intake and exhaust.

rotorhead

listen to peejay.... he's not called the "12a avenger" for nothing! what everyone is trying to point out is that you may be quite disappointed when you first put that engine in. the intake and exhaust will really be restricting how much overall hp you'll get. the 180hp that rob quoted probably means 180 with a good exhaust and intake. you CAN get 180hp.... just not with stock intake and exhaust. personally, i've got the intake and exhaust done, but stock ported. at the moment i'm pushing 135-140hp(flywheel). the stock ports are the big restriction in my system. after a port job, i'll be seeing 180hp as well.

SilverRocket

You still don't have it right; you need to understand that the whole thing is a system - it all works together. The way to make power is to identify the weak or limiting points in the system and improve them. For example, the stock ports on a 12A can flow enough to make approximately 150 hp. A good intake and exhaust combination can get you to this point. However, if you want to make even more power after that you need to open up the ports. If you make them big enough, your intake/exhaust might be the limitation again, so you need to replace them with even higher flowing parts, retune them for your new engine, etc.

As has been said many times, if you just replace your motor and nothing else, you will make hardly *ANY* extra power!!!! The simple reason is that you haven't addressed the primary restrictions in the stock system; you've made something bigger that doesn't need to be bigger yet. In fact, you'd do much better to go out and spend your $$ on a nice carb and exhaust then you will by doing what you propose (if you aren't going to improve these parts as well).

You might not believe us now, but wait until you get your engine and you'll see what we're talking about. Your engine might have the potential to make 180 hp, but it won't make much more than 100 hp as it is. I really think you misunderstood what the engine shop told you.

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

Engines create power by moving more air/fuel through them... If you just increase the potential of more air/fuel flow and dont make anything on the exhaust or the intake better, you are gonna be limited by the amount of air/fuel the factory carb can pull throigh and the factory exhaust can get rid of.

If thats true then how do turbos make more power, why do bigger carbs on stock motors make more power? Ill explain one example:

Case in point a turbo charged engine, it uses exhaust gas pressure to spin a turbimne, it in turns draws more air in compresses larger volume of air into a smaller area and sends it into the engine, at higher than atmospheric pressure.. Thus creating more power... If carbs and exhausts dont make a difference then explain why just simply removing cats makes a car run better. Listen to Peejay hes not an idiot...

MIKE-P-28

iTrader: (1)

**** sorry double post damn forum

V8kilr

naaaawwwwz it whats i squirts on thez geezzz ridaz yo,
it makez me go fast azzz hellz yo
i squirtz on thez civic and runz like 18's yo
fast azz helll thatz like low 18'zzz yo
if i squirtzz all 4 bottlez i gets them ***** in the air yo,
my front tires b thats my wordz kid,

wait a minute,

i mean my back tirez yo,
up in the airz kid

no

thats not right

ok no tirez yo
no tirez in the air b

but 18zzzz yo 18zzzz

4ohfour

well, this post took a shocking turn for the worse.

Can't we come to the conclusion that bottle necks are bad?

By adressing primary concerns (exhaust and intake) the engine becomes more efficient (more air/fuel = more horsepower). As the exhaust and the intake ports are opend, the supporting components (carb, exhaust pipe and so on) need to be upgraded.

Viewing the problem from an objectional point of view, it's really hard to see how one can expect such gains from opening the ports but providing nothing to push more through them.

cheers'

V8kilr

the ports come pretty restricted stock so opening them up to say a street port helps to utilize the full potential of the already exhistint intake and exhaust,
as for the carb its really hard to say,

the nikki is a great performer but needs a little help,

removing the emissions will help out a ported engine as will a header,

those are just the basics of what you really need to get some benifit out of your port job,

but if you did stay stock and went with a street port you would still notice the gain it just wouldnt be as much,

but if you swapped out the exhaust and removed the emissions alone without a port you would still see a nice gain,

so really its not needing one thing or the other,
its just like any other enigne,
your bolts ons work in tagent with each other to help each item perform its best.

REVHED

Please explain how removing the emissions will increase horsepower in any way?

peejay

The main restriction on the stock engine is the exhaust.

Upgrade the exhaust and the restriction becomes the fuel system. (It's possible that due to age, the fuel system is the main restriction)

Upgrade the exhaust and fuel system and the restriction becomes the intake setup.

Upgrade all that and then, only then, does the stock porting become the main restriction.

You can port an engine and put all the stock stuff back on it, and it'll idle cool but it won't make any more power. Been there done that.

The emissions equipment doesn't hurt power after you replace the stock converter with a high-flow unit. There is no point to removing it except for simplicity.

SilverRocket

I think the reason a lot of us remove the emissions equipment is because often it isn't working like it's supposed to at this point. The simplicity is nice for working on the car, there's fewer vacuum hoses to worry about, and it has to be done anyways if planning on an aftermarket carb setup. But no, it's not going to make any power lol.

peejay

Removing emissions hurts power up here... if it doesn't pass smog it can't be registered, and you can't drive a non registered car so it effectively has zero HP

SilverRocket

LOL!!!

coldy13

hey peejay, does columbus require any tests? and do i have any chace at all passing with a completely gutted cat.

peejay

no e-check in columbus.... only a few counties around cleveland and cincinatti and another city require emissions testing.

coldy13

yay, i'm saved from getting a new cat for them then