Sterling

Picked up an 85GS w/97K on a nonsmoking engine, crappy body and interior for $100.
Just got the engine going this morning - it screams through a RB header.
But the clutched is screwed up...I think.
Here's the deal:

The car runs in neutral, and when the car is off, clutch not depressed, it can be put itnto any gear. (And it really is in gear...IE, There is a clutch disk installed.)

Appears (evident by a single missing bell housing bolt.) that a clutch job may have recently been done.

Slave cylinder hose has been replaced.

Depressing the clutch I feel only the resistance of a spring.

At first push of the pedal, sometimes it stays down.

The slave cylinder appears to move the throw-out bearing arm back about 1 inch or so when pushed down (proped with a broomstick against the seat).

The pedal adjustment demonstrates the longest travel (maxed out, can't push the master cylinder in any further).

I attempted to bleed the system, moved twice the capacity of the resevoir through the system. (To no avail.)
However, I may not have done this properly.

The system was not dry when I got it. Fluid was clean.

Nothing is bent, rusty, leaking, ect.

It would seem as though the slave is'nt pushing the throwout bearing linkage far enough back. I don't feel the spring of the pressure plate tines.

Is this classic of air in the system? Something else?

rxtasy

maybe this won't help you much, but i had to get the slaves replaced on both my 1st gens. (twice on the 1st one so 3 times altogether) they would go and the clutch pedal would start sticking to the floor. the mechanic who was working on it back then said it was a big problem with the 1st gens and that he had seen a bunch of rebuilt slaves that were bad right out of the box.

FJ

If you had not just gotten the car and knew the clutch was good, I'd say the slave cylinder, also.
Like rxtasy and most others, when mine was bad, the pedal stuck on the floor. Although many here seem to think a kit will not last and you are better off putting in a rebuilt cylinder, the original on mine lasted about 8 years and the kit I put in it lasted just as long. I then put another kit in and it's been fine. I used the Mazda kit and honed the cylinder.
For the few dollars it will cost, I would try that, just to eliminate the slave as the problem.

I've never had much air in the system, but I don't think air would cause the pedal to stick to the floor, normally. Unless there was a leak big enough to be obvious? The air would just compress and not allow the rod pushing on the fork to extend fully. The slave piston has a rubber boot as a seal and when it hardens, the fluid leaks past it and the rod slowly retracts, pushed by the pressure plate springs. If it retracts enough the pedal then sticks to the floor. (Usually it would happen after the pedal was held down for a minute, of course, but not just when doing a quick shift.) When you use your foot to pop the pedal up, the small internal spring in the slave then pushes the piston back, and it works again temporarily. I don't see how air could do the same thing if the slave boot was good.
"I attempted to bleed the system, moved twice the capacity of the resevoir through the system. (To no avail.)
However, I may not have done this properly."
For bleeding: when the wife is not around to pump the pedal (or just tells me to go away ), I tape a small clear jar to something handy like the BAC and fill it half way with brake fluid. Run a hose (preferably clear, though I have used vacuum line in a pinch) from the slave nipple and put the other end in the fluid in the jar (making sure it's well below the surface of the fluid). Open the nipple a fair amount and pump. If there is enough air in the system, as there would be after changing a component, the pedal will stick to the floor. Just keep popping it up and pumping. When there are almost no bubbles coming out, I close the nipple "most" of the way and continue. When there are no more bubbles, close the valve and you're all set. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes. If it's longer, air is getting into the system somehow.

I put a kit in the master before I had any symptoms, but it doesn't seem to cause the pedal to stick to the floor as the slave does. It would just not allow the clutch to fully disengage, causing difficult shifting. Actually, after I put the kit in mine, most of the "notchiness" I had been experiencing shifting into 2nd and 3rd was gone.

You mentioned the slave rod extends about an inch or so. I had measured mine (this was with everything working normally.) :
From the shift fork to the edge of the boot on the rod (the edge nearest the cylinder) was 4.5cm (~1.75") at rest and 6cm (~2.4") with the pedal down. So a little under 3/4" extension. I didn't check it before putting a kit in, but if the slave is bad I would expect to see the rod retract slowly while the pedal is held down, as the fluid leaked past the rubber boot on the piston. As yours sometimes stays down "at first push", I don't know if it's likely the slave or a clutch problem.

"It would seem as though the slave isn't pushing the throwout bearing linkage far enough back. I don't feel the spring of the pressure plate tines. " I would try to push on the shift fork by hand. If it has only a small amount of free play and then you can't move it any further I would assume the pressure plate is good and it's the hydraulics.
If you can get the pedal to stay down as it had, try leaving it down and measure the slave to shift fork distance. If it is much less than 2.4", I would presume the clutch is good and the slave is bad.

A long-winded reply, I hope some of it helps.

-John.

Sterling

Thanks!
I worked on it last night (before reading the replies) and bled the clutch properly in accordance with the workshop manual.
I had to do it by myself, as my wife also says, "Go away.", unless of course it's time for her oil to be changed!;-)
So I did it with an piece of vacuum nest hose and a half full bottle of fluid (pretty fresh). I could not see the bubbles. I should've done it in a clear container for better observation.

The pedal felt only slightly stiffer...so little was the difference that I wondered if I was imagining it. Certainly not where it's supposed to be as far as effort.
I started the car, and while pushing in the pedal, I could feel the bearing chatter of the throw out bearing as a vibration thru the pedal. It sounds and feels pretty bad. Could that just be from sitting? I think the previous owner had a buddy do a clutch job for him (he's not the type himself) and they drank too much beer. I don't think they changed the TO bearing, which makes me wonder about the pilot bearing!
But that's all a different story.

I have in my shed my the clutch from my last 85. I suppose I'll have to just swap it in. I wish I had a fluid leak on this one somewhere as an indicator, but everything seems fine from the outside.
I will try pushing in the fork by hand with a broom stick, I guess.

I'll have my wife depress the clutch on my daily driver, and then this one so I can see if it's going in all the way.

Question...What if it is?! Does that mean the tines are busted? (Can that even happen?)
Or did someone "forget" to install a clutch?

Thanks.

yayarx7

They could have done the job badly. You'll have to just pull the tranny and find out it sounds like. It would be quicker then all the dickering around you seem to be doing IMO.

Good luck.

MarkPerez

it sounds like you've done every test known to man,,
the last thing is to get under that sucker and pull the
you know what out,,,,i didn't want to say trans_______