Enthu

iTrader: (1)

I have been searching, and there is a sea of pilto bearing removal questions. I am doing this on a 79 SA. inside the shaft, blocking the view of the pilot bearing, there is some sort of cover. Is this a grease seal or somethings? and will this come out with the bearing?

I rented a puller that sems to be able to get into the bearing okay, but I'm just wondering about this seal. It seems to be on the flywheel nut almost.

Or am I missing a step and need to remove the flywheel nut?

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

The only thing in front of the pilot bearing should the seal. You do not take the nut off of the flywheel to replace the bearing. There is the rear main seal behind the flywheel.

82transam

iTrader: (18)

yea its a little seal, you need to purchase it seperatly, doesn't come with the new pilot bearing....

Enthu

iTrader: (1)

The seal actually looks fine, so maybe I should just leave the bearing in place. The clutch disc was the worst I've seen. I was in 3 large pieces and many smaller one.

I assuma the seal comes off with the bearing though.

GavinJuice

just go to mazda and get a new seal, it doesn't make sense to pull everything apart and not replace it. It might look new but they get old and dry and shrink like everything else.......

Blake

Just as an FYI, we did a video on removing and installing the pilot bearing. Always nice to see something done before you try it for the first time. The video is free on Rotary Engine Illustrated. Here is the link:

http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.c...ring-seal.html

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Wrong answer.
This is the list of things that should be replaced.
Clutch disc
pressure plate
release bearing
pilot bearing and seal
Flywheel needs to come off and be resurfaced.
Recommend that you get a new rear main engine seal and replace while flywheel is off. Also inspect soft plugs at back of motor for any problems.
Don't forget to put some high temp grease in the pilot bearing, coat the throw out fork where the bearing rides. Also put small amount grease on the Trans splines.
Optional things to consider while trans is out. Front and rear trans seals. And the trans mount which splits apart.
You need to do these things to keep the vehicle reliable.
Also if you have no history on the last time the trans fluid was changed then do so and I recommend synthetic gear oil
In the archives I did a thread on some tips on reinstallation of the trans and what to use to lock the flywheel in place to get the nut off.

RW-7

iTrader: (56)

THIS VID MIGHT HELP
http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.c...r-bearing.html

MattG

iTrader: (2)

I just watched that video, its a good video, but thats not how it really goes, there is a lot more dropping of the F bomb, well on mine atleast lol

bliffle

Yeah, they're hard to remove especially if you're under the car. And it's raining. And it's 35 degrees. It's very important to get that ID cleaned out good before inserting the PB, too, and so is choice of lube. I still don't know what the best lube is.

Wiggle the transmission input shaft to check for "excessive play", whatever that is. You get to choose, tho sometimes it's obvious, but often you have "acceptable play". And be sure to use a decent Clutch Alignment Tool to center the clutch plate before attempting to slide the xmission input shaft into place, or you could spend a lot of time on that cold wet driveway cursing and struggling to install the xmission.

Lube choice for the PB and the splines is important, and I still don't know what the best is. I've used silicon grease, lithium grease, and even Boat Trailer Bearing Grease, and they all seemed to work, none failed, but I always wonder.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

just use a high-temp bearing grease.

Blake

Were you using the factory tool? If not, I can understand completely.

You would not believe how many really F'd up pilot bearings we see come into the shop, where someone broke the old bearing by trying to remove it with some cheap aftermarket tool and left little pieces of the old one behind or scarred up the bore so bad the new bearing failed almost immediately. Once you try to run an engine with a mangled pilot bearing, it damages both the eccentric shaft (engine rebuild time!) and transmission input shaft (tranny rebuld time!). Many aftermarket cluch kits don't even come with the pilot bearing seal, which keeps the grease in and the clutch dust out. The problem is so wide spread, we invented a new tool to over-bore the eccentric shaft pilot bearing bore for a larger OD pilot bearing. This at least saves you from having to tear the whole engine apart to replace the eccentric shaft, but the tranny still needs to be overhauled in most cases. Problems of this magnitude, costing thousands of Dollars to fix, are caused by people trying to save $100 by not buying the ONLY right tool for the job; the Mazda Pilot Bearing Puller Tool (PN 49-1285-071).

nick812

How much is the Mazda Pilot bearing removal tool and install tool?

Blake

We never use those cheap plastic aligning tools, but rather an actual transmission input shaft. Works much better.

The only pilot bearing grease we use is Royal Purple Synthetic Bearing Grease. Good stuff! I converted Rob to it about 7 years ago. Not as easy to find as their motor oil and gear lube but worth the hunt.

Blake

We sell them for $99.

http://www.pineappleracing.com/index...PROD&ProdID=43

Rx-7Doctor

iTrader: (13)

Well if everyone went out and got a used trans they could use the transmission input shaft. The cheap plastic tools work just fine as long as you pay attention to the feel of the tool coming out of the splines and ensure that you have a good alignment.

As far as the $100.00 pilot bearing tool. Alot of these guys cannot afford a one time C-note expense. But I do recommend that you try and find one like the factory one that you can rent atleast. It is much better than the jaw style.

jarath

Mine siezed right to the input shaft and came out with the tranny... cutting that off and trying to fix the mess the bearing left wasn't easy.

DublyDurty

Blake,

Just a small "editorial" comment. I looked at the link you provided and the first paragraph of the tutorial says: "The pilot bearing should be changed when you rebuild your engine ideally. It is a fairly expensive part but is extremely important in supporting the transmission."

Actually, "It is a fairly inexpensive part" 'cause it's only like $12.50 for the pilot bearing and seal. But it does get expensive if you do it wrong!


DD

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

Well, I bought the "wothless, cheap 2-jaw puller" for $25.00 and put it on my universal slap hammer and pulled it right out. I had to modify the ends of the puller to fit through the bearing with my dremel to make it work, but I just used the new bearing to verify the fit. I couldn't see spending the $100.00 unless I had to. This worked for me and I saved $75.00 in the process. If it would have failed then I would go get the expensive tool.

If I was doing this for a living, of course I would get the expensive tool because in the end it would pay for itself over time. Me, I might never pull that tranny again.

DublyDurty

I bought the even cheaper one from JC Whitney for $17 because it has 3 jaws instead of 2. I slightly tapered the inside legs of the jaws into a V shape and it fit and worked perfectly. But since the "brace" legs were too short I slipped on a couple of 13mm sockets. But I don't do this for a living either. We ARE a cheap bunch, aren't we?!!







DD

Blake

LOL. Yeah, I didn't write that. I think he was thinking of the tool, not the part.

Blake

Even I blind squirl finds a nut from time to time. Count yourself lucky. We usually only find them that loose if there is pre-existing damage to the bore from a previous failed bearing, but every once in a while you get really lucky. The falicy in your agument is that if the two-jaw puller didn't work you could then just use the factory tool...often the pilot bearing shell gets damaged and you will then your only recourse to cut the pieces out. Also keep in mind that you can buy the factory tool and then sell it when you are done. No different than renting if you consider that the deposit is equal to the cost.

Blake

That one looks like it might actually work pretty well. I would still be concerned about those cast jaws, but it certainly is about 100% better than the ordinary 2-jaw pullers we normally see.

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

Interesting bit about the bore being munged. I bought this car back in 83 (80 GS) and in 84 the clutch went out. I had some shop in Jersey at the time fix it but I had to send it back within a month because the pilot bearing was making noise and it was hard to shift. Fast forward 20+ years and I pull the pilot bearing out and see the inside of the bore is all f$%#@ed up looking inside, like it was welded and then reground. I inspected it closely and it looks like it will support the bearing ok. The old bearing actually looked fine and this was after 50K of use on it. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping the new bearing works out ok. If not I'll finally have an excuse to build a new motor from scratch :-)

bliffle

What to do if the ID is munged? I guess it's easy if the engine is out: get the oversize PB and take the engine to a machinist to have the ID bored out. The adventurous might try contriving his own press and boring with a few disposable twist drills. Hmmm. At the least he'll have to hone out the ID to make it nice.

But if the engine is in the car and you absolutely need a decent ghetto fix to get home or back over the border, I suppose you'd drop under in that 32 degree weather with the rain pouring down and clean up the ID with the Dreml so the bore is clear to accept the new PB, and then improvise something to fill the remaining pits in the ID so as to keep the PB from rocking and yawing. Maybe something like filling the pits with JB or high-temp epoxy (I think heat is the enemy of epoxy) and inserting a cheap clutch centering tool with mold-release to form the ID so it's close to the OD of the PB. Then after curing hone the ID and insert the PB. Might work.