nick812

So I am tring to get the ball rolling on this project. I have a few questions I hope to have answered. First I know I have to fill in the intake ports with devcon do i need to fill in the water jacket area on the plates??? I am plaining on sending parts to racing beat to get balanced I think it runs about $350 is there any where else that can do this? I know carbon seals are best but imight go turbo and I am thinking about the RA super seals any input? I know I have more ?'s but I ll start with these few. I ll post pics when I really get started.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

Around the intake ports in the irons? No, not really needed. Around the p-port sleeves in the housings, yes.

Stage II stationary gears, 3 window bearings, race oil pressure regulator or mod the stock one, shim the front oil pressure regulator, race clearance the rotors and bearings, lighten the rotors, oil jet mod for the e-shaft, just to name a few.

Someone else has a p-port or high rev bp project going and listed a builder who was doing his balancing for 250. Don't recall either the poster or builder.

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

I would not use any steel apex seals as they will chatter at high rpms. I would use either carbon or ceramic. Ceramic being the prefered as the carbon seals break easily especially if you plan on using Nos.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

Carbon is great for PP. Ceramic, while expensive (expect around 1500$ for a full set IIRC) will hold great for a PP and for turbo. The carbon is good for turbo as well, but you better have the test and tune done before installing the carbon seals. That is one thing they do not like, is detonation. As far as Ceramic, they are light weight like the carbons, and strong like the steels.

Choose wisely. Either go big, or blow IMO.

nick812

craigw1 filled in his water area in the plates thats why I was unsure on that. I was told to go with s5 or s6 stationary gears.

The oil presure reg. I was told a 3rd gen will work and i have that and shims.

Good call i forgot about the e-shaft jet I ll order them from DAN.

warwickben

iTrader: (1)

just wanted to know if your doing this to a 12a or a 13b and if your going to go carb or efi.

nick812

13b with a 48 ida

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

Racing Beat recommends the 51 IDA for a P-Port engine, they say the 48 is too small.

nick812

yea but my p-ports are on the small side if i can find a 51 or bigger for the right price i go that way but i know a 48 should do just fine to start.

Cybertronic

If you need anything let me know i have alot of spare engine parts.

nick812

I am still peicing together engine parts I have had alot of help but still no rotors e-shaft tension bolts and misc. engine parts I ll need. I am just hoping to have it done by my birthday.

blown7

a 48 IDA works just fine. That is what i'm running on my 13B-PP as well as carbon apex seals. I have to go to work now but if you'd like more info let me know.

nick812

yea blown tell me a little about your build. What rotors did you go with and the big thig where did you send everything to get clearanced and balanced? Bc pricing I have got I might as well just go RX8 and a builder told me I wouldnt need to have it balanced or clearanced.

Jimbo II

Hey dude carbon seals r the best 4 pp rotors. u want lightweight on the tips not steel. Steels are all good but will screw your housings if one decides to let go, carbons will not f**k ur housings. As far as I no......

48ida will be fine just get a holley blue or sumthin big for your fuel. My mate had a kp61 toyota starlet runnin a 12app and he used two factory 82 rx7 pumps or sumthn and a webber carb cant remember wot sort.

Make sur you do everything you can to make it reliable at high revs. peak power is usually around 8500rpm to 9500rpm depending on various things.(exhaust, intake, tuning etc) cross drilling th e-shaft, 6 windows in the stat gears, etc. rx8 rotas are cheap and high comp (10.0-1) and they are much lighter than say the 6port high comps(9.7) . it is usually a good idea to balance the rotas, shaft and counterweights.

If your goin pp mite aswell make the ports HUGE and run a 51ida! U won't regret it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nick812

The housings are already done and any one have input on the RX8 parts 1 builder said if I went with its parts the price would be worth it. I wont have to have the assembly balanced as it is already balanced for up to 9500rpm's. The e shaft new about $150 stat gear $150 for the set and $ 75 for the front and rear counter weight. Only thing is finding RX8 rotors new there $400.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

400 for both? That actually is not bad.

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

I beg to differ. Carbon seals are not the best for a N/A pport. I would say ceramic seals are way better. Carbon seals are ok but ceramic seals give more compression and are much stronger and are light also and will gain much more power over carbon seals. If your tight on the budget then go with the Carbon seals. If you have the money and want the best seals that will net the most power and reliability then go with the Ceramics.

I now a couple of guys who run in the all motor class and they have used both seals. One guy told me he would go through carbon seals left and right and didn't mind because they didn't do any damage when they broke and he could just replace them one by one. Finally one day he broke down and threw a set of Ceramics seals and he said it was night and day difference. No more broken seals and the power was crazy. He said he detonated big time on the ceramics on several races and thought for sure that one of the seals let go- nope still running low 10 second passes all day long. The other guy I know has the same set of ceramics in his N/A motor and these seals have been through 10 different engine rebuilds and they are still mint. Bottom line Ceramics are the best. Why do you think like 99.9% of all the top dog rotary drag racers are using them?

ps- a weber 48ida is way to small for a 13pp if you want any real power gains. Not to bag on Blown7 but he says that a 48ida works just fine- a 14.0 second 13bpport is nothing to brag about and telling you that using a 48ida is just fine is in my opinion bad advise. If you use small pports and then use a small carb and then use a restrictive exhaust then you are just wasting your time. Build a streetport or bridgeport you will get more power and driveabiltiy.

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

That is the best part of Ceramics, they can go through hell and still chug on. Detonation and high RPMs are nothing to them (to an extent, like everything). Unless you feel like dropping $2k on apex seals, then carbon is the way to go. Same results, but pray you don't get detonation.

V8what?!

Your buddy runs 10`s with an N/A?

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

Almost on the same page. Not the same results. The caramic seals will produce more compression thus more power.

And just so you don't think I am talking out of my **** about the 48 ida. Here is a link direct from racing beat who has been around longer than most. The dont' post stuff like this unless it is fact and are usually on the conservative side of things. Note in the fine print for 13b pport for 48ida. What does it say. It says this carb is not used- TOO SMALL.

****, wrong link. Here we go- http://www.racingbeat.com/PDF/webercomponents.pdf

Jeezus

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, thanks for the details on the compression. I read to fast, and its starting to get late



I would never run anything under a 50 on a 13bpp. The 12app works fantastic with a 48ida, and better with a 51. I just do not see the point of spending $400 more for 10hp.

ultimatejay

iTrader: (1)

yeah, there are lots of people running 10's N/A. The record is correct me if I'm wrong 9.9 by Padilla.

nick812

I have heard mix reviews about the 48IDA but just getting the motor built and seeing how it will run is goal #1. If need be I can send a 48 to be made in to a 51.5 for i think $350 and thats not to bad. And if I dont plan on going turbo I am gonna go carbon I can replace them over 4 times and still be cheaper than caramic seals. Right now I am more thinking about the rotating assimbly. If I dont go turbow the RX8 or S5 is what I want, But if I go turbo pre 86 and S4 would be a better suit fron what I have read and asked around. Another question I need answered is can I use 12a gears with 3 window bearings with 13B e-shaft and rotors?

Jimbo II

Sweet as, big budget, go ceramics

nick812

My buget is very small and I am tring to save money anywhere i can.