sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Details: '84 SE, ~156k miles (original engine?), water pump mileage unknown(entire front cover and WP are orange, like this when I bought it ~7 yrs ,22k miles ago, don't know what this means), no air pump, full road RB header exhaust, yoohoo belt, thermostat mileage unknown, radiator cap mileage unknown, brand new(15k miles ago) FMOC and FMOC oil lines from mazdatrix(included new oil thermostat), "skid" plate underpan installed as it should be, not blocked fins of AC condenser or radiator, flushed cooling system last year ~3k miles ago.
Symptoms: last few years I noticed the needle wanting to creep towards the 1/2 way mark on really hot days or under REALLY hard driving, intermittently...Few days ago ~85*F, the gauge "spiked" halfway during a REALLY hard pull up a steep ridge hillclimb about 1.5 miles long, degree >=45*. There was nowhere to pull off or turn around, so I put-putted up the rest of the way ~3k rpm in 3rd whilst cranking the heater. I was surprised the air coming out off the defrost vents on full hot was warm, but not hot. Once I reached the peak and coasted down the other side, things returned to normal, no damage found so far.
After reading thru all the overheating threads, I found out about the bottom radiator hose possibly collapsing under load, air left in the system, etc. #1:I don't think I could still have air in there after 3k miles since flush, could I? Allthough, I've noticed when I start it cold, there is a "rush" I hear from right to left behind the center vents and gauge cluster...Sounds like frothing, bubbling, aquarium noises. #2: If the yoohoo belt is slipping, does/can it squeal? When I first put the RB exhaust on and removed the air pump, I had the same overheating problems as I do now(although accompanied by an atrocious SQUEAL > 4k rpm) until I got the yoohoo belt... #3: Should I just replace waterpump and thermostat for the hell of it? I went to the local dealer today, he said it would be ~$400 for the waterpump...I took a look at the parts explosion, it looked like the whole front cover + waterpump and everthing else! He said there was no p/n or listing for just the waterpump! wtf?
How should I proceed? I really need to plan any work, as I have to order parts, schedule time off work in advance when I can, and drive ~60 miles away to have acces to tools/workspace. Any help, relevant info. is appreciated as always, thanks guys.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

step one is the thermostat, 8553-99-152

water pump, actually you should pull up on the fan and see if the bearings are good, the last few i've had haven't leaked a drop but had like 1/2" of play! your parts guy is looking at the wrong number, the water pump COVER is N232-99-153B, this is one of those gotchas in the parts catalog that separates the rookies from the amateurs.

DerrickS

It does sound like you have some air in there, from your description. If there was an air pocket when you did the flush, it's not going to go away, right? At least bleed the system again and see if that helps - in addition to replacing the T-stat.

Are you losing coolant in the bottle?

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Pulled around on the fan, no detectable bearing movement. Do I want the water pump cover? Is that the actual waterpump? He claimed there was no part number for only the water pump.

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Nope, not losing coolant from the bottle. From all the threads I read, I was under the impression if you do have air in there, it will eventually work it's way out...So I was assuming a few thousand miles later, I couldn't possibly have air in there.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

yep you want the water pump cover. this is the actual water pump. your parts guy is making a rookie mistake. if you look at the picture, you can see that 15-010 is the whole water pump assembly, housing, pump etc etc, and that 15-100 is the water pump/water pump cover.

on the piston engine mazdas 15-010 is the water pump. so since your parts guy has never looked up a rotary part before, he just went to the 15-010 because that is what he did last time, and this time its different.

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Thanks man, I'll get over there and educate him...

DerrickS

Hmm... well not sure if its wording or you misunderstood me, but I didn't mean *from* the bottle, just if the bottle was showing that coolant was going away. Like one week it's a certain level, and next week it's lower. I guess that's too many words to just ask "are you losing coolant".

Anyway, that made me think - The bottle has a straw that goes down to the bottom from the cap. If that straw is gone, not air tight, or the bottle has no coolant in it, then you *will* suck air back into the system as it cools off. I would check that out.

andernamen

iTrader: (2)

Also consider instrumentation. My temps are normal, but my gauge still reads high. Try a new sensor. You may also want to check the gauge in the dash, but you will need a special tool. Good luck.

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I know what you meant, I was commenting on the possibility of air still being "trapped" in my system after thousands of miles. Bottle and cap and straw are fine, level doesn't change.

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, CAN SOMEONE GET ME A MAZDA P/N FOR THE WATERPUMP??? Got back to the parts dept. today...Guy was not happy to see me again...Guy pulled up the same picture(an explosion view of the: oil cooler lines,etc; radiator and shroud, etc.; fan and clutch,etc.; and front cover, water pump, pulley, etc. The last mentioned group IS labelled as "15010" and he keeps telling me that's what I have to buy to get the waterpump and thermostat. There is NO listing of a "15100" or a "15-100" anywhere on that picture. He tried searching for "15100" and "15-100" and there is nothing. He says there is NO number to cross reference or whatever for the water pump. Can someone please get me a p/n for the pump and anything else I'd need? Like gasket? PLEASE???
My GOD, I can't even get step effing ONE done...Order the parts.

Nicholas P.

iTrader: (1)

Fixed my cooling problems. Tried waterpump, thermostat. Turned out to be my fan. 3 tested clutch fans later no more cooling problems. Then my radiator started leaking from so much pressure before. The sensor surround had cracked and after losing coolant for months finally fixed. Small leak.140 for fan and 130 for radiator I think. But I can dog it up hill now and she purs. Just order one from rockauto.com. If that is the problem then invest in an expensive one. Coolant can be recovered in a 3 dollar pan from Wally World.

KansasCityREPU

iTrader: (9)

N232-99-153B (79-85)

Why not just order it from RockAuto? It's around $32 for the Gates and $58 for the ACDELCO. AdvanceAuto has it for $65.

You can even get the parts manual and look it up.
http://www.foxed.ca/rx7manual/manual...000A-4600A.pdf

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, what about gasket p/n? Are 3rd party waterpumps equal to OEM? I know how important cooling is for the rotary, if I'm going to do it, I want it done right, not for the best price. If 3rd party options are equal to oem, then I'm willing to try them. I've decided to replace rad, thermo, and waterpump at once, then at least that will be done.
Are cores not involved with buying a waterpump? ALL 79-85 (even 13B) engines use the same pump, correct? Thanks again.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

lmao! i just looked and he's actually right, the USA parts catalog doesn't list a water pump for a gsl-se, because its wrong...

if you look at the 12A screen the catalog is correct. same part number N232-99-153A, like i posted before... comes with the gasket

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Thanks again...I tried a different dealership today...no dice. I also tried some mazdatrix p/n's I also tried N232-99-153B (79-85) suggested by KansasCityREPU. So all in all I spent HOURS with two different dealerships, got nothing but unbelievable frustrations.
My car's been down for a week allready, still no parts, so I just went Mazdatrix and the wp, thermo, and two gaskets came out to around ~$125 pre-shipping. Now time to WAIT some more.

t_g_farrell

iTrader: (1)

You know it may not be the water pump. I had the same issue and when I replaced the oil cooler
lines for the FMOC on my SA, cooling problem solved.

I would tilt the car up on jack stands under front, open the radiator (cold), run the engine until
hot and burp the hoses a until your sure theres no air. You know you did good if you have to add
coolant during this process.

Next I while doing that I would watch the water flow through the radiator. If the pump is
working decently you will see the water flow easily. If the pump isn't squealing or dripping
I wouldn't replace it.

The oil does most of the cooling on a rotary. Are the oil lines original? Do they look bad? Leaking?
Get the RB braided ones for $100 and swp those on. Make sure to use new crush washers
too.

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the suggestions. I detailed in the first post that I have ~10-20k miles on brand new oil cooler and lines (yes, new crush washers, too...couldn't buy them anywhere so I had to get a shop to make me 50 and buy them so I could get two). Still no-one has commented on my wondering if it's possible for air to remain in the system after a few thousand miles. In other overheating posts I read through, people often commented that after many heat cycles, and with a properly working thermo, any trapped air eventually works out...I don't know if this is true, it's just something I came across. BUT, I also don't know if my thermo is ok. I allready have a rad pulled from a parts car, so I've just decided my first step is getting that rad checked out(flow/pressure tested) and while I'm putting that rad and the thermo in, might as well replace the unknown mileage wp, right?

DerrickS

Yeah, that's why I was asking about the bottle. If there was air in the system AND your cap and overflow bottle are working as they should, then heat cycling the cooling system would push air out into the bottle, then the cooling action would suck coolant back into the system from the bottle, and so you would need to add coolant to the bottle, because you have pushed air out of the system.
If you think you have air in there, and you haven't had to top the bottle off, then something is wrong. Maybe buy a new cap? You said the old one is mileage unknown, so why not, right?

Good luck!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

holy crap, you should print the attachment and take it to the general manager, its what Mazda's availability screen looks like when you type in either N232-99-153A or B.

if i owned a dealership i'd be pissed if my parts guys can't look up, order or sell a part, especially when the customer has his wallet open, and the part number!

rotornoob

iTrader: (2)

I would just bypass the dealer and do the delco...ac delco is a good company with quality parts in my experience. If the dealership parts guy can't get his head out of his *** and find the oem pump...and normally I get some kind of warranty with delco...just my .02

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Well, while waiting on me parts, I got other questions...I gots the yoohoo belt, so how damn hard is it gonna be to get back off? After all that stretching, and it being used, is it safe to put back on? What would be involved in "gutting" the air pump and putting it back on as just a pulley? Do they come apart and go back together even? And, how do I know if my bottom rad hose is collapsing under heavy load? I squeezed around on it, and didn't feel a spring or anything inside it.
AND, do I use dry gaskets on cleaned surfaces for the thermo and waterpump install, or should there also be a sealant of some sort involved? Thanks again, just trying to prepare...

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

edit

sevens4me

iTrader: (1)

Parts'll be here any day...I'd really appreciate any answers/insight...

ALSO, I noticed today after a few days of the fan/fan clutch assembly lying horizontally on the floor, it had a light coating of viscous clear fluid covering the mating to engine surface(which was the bottom it was sitting on). I guess this leaked out of the clutch?!? Does it have to be stored vertically(as it is installed)? I didn't know they could leak as it did. I don't remember the box it came in being oily from it leaking when I bought a new clutch a couple years ago...
ALSO, I noticed there was a water trap inline in the top rad hose. Are these bad for flow (with the wire mesh screen inside)?

Nicholas P.

iTrader: (1)

They should not leak. I've got 3 sitting in work bench now everyway