BrewerBob

After replacing the engine and removing the Rat's Nest in my '85 SE with an '82 (or so) engine, I can't it started. I don't seem to be getting any spark to the plugs or from the coils. The coils are from the original '85 and were working fine in Oct '04 (the last time the car was running).

I know I have several connectors that are completely disconnected from the Rat's Nest. Do they need to be terminated or something? I also have a few vacuum lines that I have no clue as to where they should go or if they should be plugged.

None of this should be enough to kill the spark should it? The coils are measuring as they should per the FSM. I'm not getting spark at the plugs or out of the coils. The spark should be strong enough to see during daylight while holding the wires close to ground and turning the engine over, yes?

There are four wires coming from the distributor; two yellows and two blacks. I'm not sure where the black plug should go. There is also what appears to be a capacitor or condensor that is near the back of the egine near the rear lift eyelet of the engine. It is currently not plugged into anything. What the hell is it and where does it belong?

I've attached pictures of a few of my problem areas.

BrewerBob

What needs to go where?

BrewerBob

Come on guys...doesn't anyone have any ideas on tracing down what causing no spark?

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

If you remove the emission crap on top of the engine, you only need 4 wires: Alternator (2 wires coming out from 2 separate plug from the passenger side harness) water temp and oil pressure.

With the igniter wires, just plug them back in as long as you didnt do anything crazy with the harness.

Since the engine has been sitting for that long, did you pour some oil thru the carb and hand-spin the motor? OR did you start it dry.

BrewerBob

There are two sets of wires from the dizzy. A yellow & black, solid yellow, and 2 blk & whites. The yellows plug into the wire harness where they came from. The blacks are a female barrel type connector. It is one of the ones that I have no idea where it plugs into. I have 2 male barrel types and 3 females. I'm at a loss as to where the other goes. I als have a green & blk wire from near the main relay that I can't find a mate for as well.

No, I forgot to turn the engine over by hand first. Compression isn't my concern at the moment tho. I have zero spark from the coils. What's in front of the coils? The coils should fire then be dispersed by the distributor so even if it's unplugged or wrong, I should get spark to it but I'm not.

There is a green & blk wire that is supposed to have a barrel connector on it near the main fuse that is supposed to go to the ignition. I'm guessing that is one of my disconnected wires even tho the connector type I have is different.

Anyone near Essex, MD have an FB I can stop by and look at?

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

In a 84-85, the black with white stripe shares a common wire. It means if you open the wire loom, you will find that they are on a "wye." That wire is "hot." The other thinner wire, yellow/blue stripe, goes to the igniter to the coil's negative terminal. If you didnt open the wire loom, then you shouldnt have a problem plugging it back in. If you look at the harness, one is longer than the other.

Spark --- Did you ground the spark plug wire to the chassis?

BrewerBob

Two problems here...1) the engine is now an 82 or older. 2) the harness is still an 85.


The black&whites are two wires using one round female socket type connector. I didn't open any of the looms but I've still managed to "loose" the mating connector. It will reach the capacitor looking think bolted to the little cover plate that goes to the bell housing of the engine. It has a male barrel connector with a single solid black wire. It will also reach if stretched to a single male that is a larger gauge black wire.

The harness is no longer tied in place at it's attaching points since I removed the engine but it is roughly where it was before. The lengths and lay of the harness suggest that the distrib connects to the "capacitor".

I tried grounding a plug as well as the leadina and trailing wires straight from the coil. No dice on either. By the way, the plugs have no electrodes on the "new" engine. They are completely flush unlike the 85 plugs with their 4 electrodes. I'm guessing the plugs are NOT interchangable?

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Check for voltage in the trailign and leading coil's + terminal. if not, you may need to by-pass it. Run a wire from the battery's + terminal to the 2 coil's +.

BrewerBob

To where on the coils? And something has to trigger them to "spark". I need the inductive kick for the spark plugs to fire. Constant voltage to the primary side isn't going to work.

I had a thought tho. The distrib is from the "new" engine. I can swap the old ignitors to the new distrib and see if that works. The old engine (85) was running until I broke a spark plug. The new engine (82 or older) is of unknown origin and condition.

Rotor13B

You should drill out the core of the spark plug and then use a reverse tap to remove the spark plug. Or If there is enough of the plug exposed, You could get a piece of rod or a socket welded to it to remove it. But be wary of who you have do it as the aluminum housing don't need much heat to warp/melt. I know this doesn't help with the emmediate problem but you did say the other engine was in known working condition so I thought I would throw that out there.

BrewerBob

No, the other engine is toast. I took the engine apart to get the plug out. The plug was hollowed out. At which point I broke an easy out about the size of my pinky. After removing the engine and looking at it more closely, I believe the plug is welded to the rotor housing. It severally over heated on me a few times. I wasn't surprised once I got the engine apart. A lot of the water journals were blocked by some kind of stop leak I guess. Anywho, even if I managed to get the plug fully out, the plating in the front housing was shot.


I only mentioned the old engine because it ran using the existing wiring harness which now doesn't seem to be working. The new engine has the new distributor on it along with the new ignitors. I still haven't had a chance to try switching them yet. Hopefully, that is all that is wrong.

GavinJuice

so check to see if you have power at your coils first. then go forwards or backwards from there.

trochoid

iTrader: (6)

The condensor bolted to the rear of the block is not part of the ignition system, it is for the oil pressure sending unit.

BrewerBob

there's no spark at the coils. That's the trouble I'm having, I don't know what is between the battery and the coils. Where is the power to the coils? It can't be a constant voltage. There is some splitter that the positive terminal runs to that looks like nothing more than a bunch of jumper wires.

The coils and all of that stuff is from the old engine and should work just fine.


Thanks.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Bob
As I mentioned before, for now, just run a wire from battery to both coil;s positive terminal. If it runs, then you know exactly what to look for.

BrewerBob

I'm missing something here. The coils aren't constantly producing high voltage are they? Normally you have to kill the power to the primary side to get the inductive kick on the secondary which is the high voltage.

Or is this part of the distributor's job?

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

Not to be rude but just do it. if it helps, then you have eliminated most of the "IF" questions and you can concentrate on one problem; why Im not getting any juice to the coils.

BrewerBob

I'll give it a shot but I didn't think it would work that directly and start.

CokeRx7

find someone with a first gen and copy what they have.

BrewerBob

Ok, I measured the voltage at the coils. About 10-11volts on a half dead battery. Full voltage while jumped to another car. I also measured the resistance across both coils. I also checked the gap between the signal rotor and the pick up coil. Measured the reistance of the pick up coils as well.

gap ~ .6mm
pick up~700 ohms
coils ~ 2 ohms
everything is as the FSM says it should be

I have NOT been able to test the igniters. Any idea what new ones would cost?

I'm check for a spark by removing the leading and trailing coil wire from the distributor and holding it close to a bolt on the suspension mount. And I'm looking for a spark while turning over the engine. What am I missing? I know it has to be something simple and boneheaded since I've checked everything else.

Siraniko

iTrader: (13)

yes you can just ground it and see if there's spark.

OR you can make something like this



OR find soemone with these junks.

BrewerBob

That's exactly what is in the FSM. I don't have a spare light bulb laying around and I don't feel like having to wire it up either. On one site I saw, they wanted $75 for an igniter. That can't possibly be right.


And there was no spark on either of the grounded coils.

BrewerBob

Ground plate to recessed positive ~ 25K ohms

Ground plate to recessed negative ~ 20K ohms

Ground plate to B ~ 11K ohms

Ground plate to C ~ 10K ohms


recessed negative to recessed positive ~ 50k ohms


Using a flash light I made the circuit. It lit once but everything is just taped together so I can't get it to repeat.

wecycle

I think the coils fire by the ignitor providing a ground then breaking it.
I could be wrong.

BrewerBob

I'm going to try missing with it again this weekend. Anyone have any more suggestions? Anyone local to 21221 or know a shop?