New to the GSL-SE world...max rwhp of a GSL-SE motor? Lets hear all hp mods.
03-15-06, 07:34 PM
#1
New to the GSL-SE world...max rwhp of a GSL-SE motor? Lets hear all hp mods.
Under optimal conditions, what is the maximum rwhp you guys have seen out of the factory fuel injection? At this point, the engine I'm thinking about getting allready has a cone filter, and duel exhaust. I was thinking about throwing in some Pineapple Racing sleeves, perhaps a s-afc or something along those lines to control fuel and mabye a ignition box. (This pretty much like the same setup my old n/a 90 Rx-7 made 167rwhp on a mustang dyno.)
I know with the factory intake manifold of a 89+ n/a Rx-7 makes more power with proper porting. Does the SE manifold need porting? Or is it pretty good from the factory?
Anyways, please share any knowledge you guys have with me.
Thanks guys, CJ
I know with the factory intake manifold of a 89+ n/a Rx-7 makes more power with proper porting. Does the SE manifold need porting? Or is it pretty good from the factory?
Anyways, please share any knowledge you guys have with me.
Thanks guys, CJ
03-15-06, 09:08 PM
#3
V8 RX-7
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the SE intake manifold is restrictive and there is a writeup on how to switch to the S4 manifold, which would also benifit from some porting.
You can't use an S-AFCII on the SE because the ECU-AFM is 5 volt and not compatible.
without turbo or housing port work you would be very lucky to see 130rwhp, the motor is rated at 135 flywheel hp 22-21 years ago
best power upgrades would be a holley carb setup, street porting & exhaust.
You can't use an S-AFCII on the SE because the ECU-AFM is 5 volt and not compatible.
without turbo or housing port work you would be very lucky to see 130rwhp, the motor is rated at 135 flywheel hp 22-21 years ago
best power upgrades would be a holley carb setup, street porting & exhaust.
03-15-06, 11:52 PM
#6
I'm actually thinking about getting a REPU with a GSL-SE engine in it. The motor is a mazda reman engine with 2,500 miles. I wanted to keep the factory fuel injection system, as this will be my wifes daily driver for then next year. We are in the process of paying off the Rx-8, and within a year it will be paid off. At that point we'll probably get a right hand drive jeep wrangler. (She's a postal worker.) Then I get the REPU. 
Then I'm thinking either single turbo FD setup, or a n/a 3 rotor.
Thanks guys for the info. Anymore would be greatly appreciated. CJ
Then I'm thinking either single turbo FD setup, or a n/a 3 rotor. Thanks guys for the info. Anymore would be greatly appreciated. CJ
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03-16-06, 10:27 AM
#10
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally Posted by pp13bnos
I'm actually thinking about getting a REPU with a GSL-SE engine in it. The motor is a mazda reman engine with 2,500 miles. I wanted to keep the factory fuel injection system, as this will be my wifes daily driver for then next year. We are in the process of paying off the Rx-8, and within a year it will be paid off. At that point we'll probably get a right hand drive jeep wrangler. (She's a postal worker.) Then I get the REPU. Then I'm thinking either single turbo FD setup, or a n/a 3 rotor.
Thanks guys for the info. Anymore would be greatly appreciated. CJ
Then I'm thinking either single turbo FD setup, or a n/a 3 rotor. Thanks guys for the info. Anymore would be greatly appreciated. CJ
BIG PLANS!!! Must have big money to go w/ all that! I think a holley w/ msd fuel pump. nice exhaust and some port work motor would do you right . I have the same thing on mine except a 12A and it is QUICK!!!! but i never took it to a dyno and this fri. will be my 1st time at trACK ill keep u posted if u want.-Erik
03-17-06, 02:51 AM
#12
V8 RX-7
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I saved the info to a text file
here it is
OK guys, here I am
Basically here is a run-down of what was done and how.
I drove mike's car around town a day or 2 to get a feel for it, and man, was it ever weak on top end, from 4.5k on up, it was just freakin *flat*. You could "make" it rev on past 5.5k, but you could tell you were no longer making anything but noise under the hood.
I was willing to bet the 6 ports werent working ever, just like on an s4 NA. These cars ran the 6 ports on the exhaust backpressure, which IMO is a pisspoor way to work them. THink about it...a turbo car makes different boost in different gears because there is different amoutn of loads on the engine in each gear, so different amounts of air are being moved. Same for an NA, just that it doesnt have a turbo to amplify the effect...by definition, exhaust backpressure varies in every gear. How the hell are you going to get even 6pi actuation that way??
I usually go at it one of 3 ways: wire them open (easy, quick, free), run them off the air pump via a tee, a dual air valve, and some hose(about $10), or run them off an RPM activated switch and an air compressor set to run at 4krpm (this option costs about $100-125, but is basically bulletproof). THe wire-open method is good enough for me, and I dont notice/mind the small loss you take (it isnt what these damn perfectionists make it out to be, cause a rotary has no "low end" anyway). For someone with a near stock car, I use the air pump mnethod. For someone going for a clean enginebay, with several mods and money to support them properly, I go for the electronic actuation.
In this case, after driving the car, I decided to go with the wire-open method. First, an SE has the most low end of any rotary save a turbo...heavy (11.x lb) rotors account for this. So, since it has an excess of low end already, a little loss wont be bad at all. We wanted to remove all mike's emissions, and the air pump woulda looked sorta dumb sitting there running those little ports. IT would be easy for me to install, easy for him to understand, and would work just fine while keeping the bay super clean.
So, I removed his entire intake down to the block, including vacuum rail with fuel rails. I cleaned out the accumulated crud off the block, and got a 2nd gen (86-88) intake for it. Note that an 89-91 intake will also fit this engine, but there is an extra valve (VDI) in the middle intake of the s5 NA intake that requires actuation at 5.5k rpm, and with no rpm switch to activate it, you *will* in fact lose power with this one wired open, so I went with the s4. Plus, theyre real cheap and readily available.
While the intake parts were on the bench I cleaned em all up and blocked off anything that didnt need to be there...subzero startup valve, acv, bac, secondary injector ports (2nd gens have 4 injectors), the nipple for the primary injectors air bleed socket, etc. I lubed and installed the 6 port sleeves with the new pineapple inserts (great mod for 50 bucks) and the s4 lower intake mani.
Then I removed the stock fuel rail from the s3 vacuum rail, along with the injectors. I opened the injectors using a spare harnes connector I have saved, connected to battery power. Then I blow 100psi compressed air through them to remove crud and such. I then installed them and the rail on the block. I ran new fuel lines directly from the rail to the firewall connection and fuel filter. I also replaced the **leaking** fuel pulsation dampner (FPD) on the fuel rail, which is the cause of many thousands of rx-7 fuel fires. I use a banjo bolt, available out of any stock 86-88 NONturbo primary (lower) fuel rail. The pulsation dampner performs no useful action in the car, but can cost you thousands in repairs should it leak.
I noted that I needed to keep the following vacuum lines: 2 vacuum advance to the distributor, fuel pressure regulator on the fuelrail, brake booster supply, cruise control (mike's call). I ran these lines tee'd several times and finally into the lone nipple left on the s4 lower intake mani, on the outside edge. I then installed the s4 upper intake (dynamic chamber). Also, stock oil metering (4 into 1) was kept, but this doesnt get vacuum, rather "fresh air" from ports on the dynamic chamber. On the 2gen intake, these ports are on the front, and I used the stock one, which is a large vacuum line, that goes on the very top nipple.
I also had to use some short (primary) 2gen oil injectors in the rear housing and intake runner, to make them fit. The SE rotorhousings are taller than a 2gen (what the intake was made to fit) so the injectors actually hit if you use the stock s3 ones, so be sure to have some spares handy or plan to block off the ports and run premix.
Now, it's time for the throttle body. The s3 stock TB is so wimpy I dont see how it moves any air, and is possibly the source of largest gain when replaced. I estimate a stock s4 NA TB is 30% larger.You must use an s4/s5 NA TB with this mod, the s3 will not come close to fitting. The s4 uses the same TPS btw, so you can use it or your original. I removed everything from the throttle body (TB mod) except the cold-start thermowax (cold idle up) and it's 2 necessary coolant lines. This included secondary butterflies, dashpot, etc.
Now I put it on, along with the 2gen TB intake elbow...the 1gen intake hose no longer fits the 2gen TB. Now I had a real problem, as the s3 airflow meter is real little (2.5" OD) versus a stock s4 AFM (3" OD) adn it's respective hose. I went to lowe's and got a fernco 3"-2" rubber drain adaptor, and lubed the 2" end up enough so it'd fit the afm. Now mike's afm is almost directly on the intake, and I installed a cone filter on the end (using an adaptor) since the stock box would no longer fit.
I had to modify the cruise control bracket on the 2gen intake just a hair to get proper tensioning on the cruise cable, and that was about all I had to do to get this puppy rolling. Power increase from 4.5K on up was a good 15-20 on the butt dyno, though not official. This is one of, if not THE, best gain I have ever gotten out of a single mod on an NA. IT equals the power you gain with a full exhaust on a 2gen NA, which is often reported to be 20hp+. I would say with a full exhaust on this car, it'll be a quick NA.
Another note is that the fans on the 1gens seem to run like hell, and sap a lot of power, no doubt. I recommend an e-fan. Not a POS autozone fan either. I use a shrouded fan, believe it or not fits the stock FC (and sa/fb) radiator very well. IT is from a 91-96 ford escort...it is shrouded, 16"+, has 3 speeds, and moves a SHITLOAD of air. Best of all, they can be obtained for $25-60 all day long at junkyards. I recommend this mod as well, and it should free up a good 5 more hp, especially on top end.
Anybody with q's feel free to ask. Someone should archive/rate/sticky this somewhere for you guys, cause before I tackled the project I searched yourall's forum here and couldnt find any details on the swap. It is definitely worthwhile for you guys, and if you DIY you can complete it for under $75 easily.
here it is
OK guys, here I am
Basically here is a run-down of what was done and how.
I drove mike's car around town a day or 2 to get a feel for it, and man, was it ever weak on top end, from 4.5k on up, it was just freakin *flat*. You could "make" it rev on past 5.5k, but you could tell you were no longer making anything but noise under the hood.
I was willing to bet the 6 ports werent working ever, just like on an s4 NA. These cars ran the 6 ports on the exhaust backpressure, which IMO is a pisspoor way to work them. THink about it...a turbo car makes different boost in different gears because there is different amoutn of loads on the engine in each gear, so different amounts of air are being moved. Same for an NA, just that it doesnt have a turbo to amplify the effect...by definition, exhaust backpressure varies in every gear. How the hell are you going to get even 6pi actuation that way??
I usually go at it one of 3 ways: wire them open (easy, quick, free), run them off the air pump via a tee, a dual air valve, and some hose(about $10), or run them off an RPM activated switch and an air compressor set to run at 4krpm (this option costs about $100-125, but is basically bulletproof). THe wire-open method is good enough for me, and I dont notice/mind the small loss you take (it isnt what these damn perfectionists make it out to be, cause a rotary has no "low end" anyway). For someone with a near stock car, I use the air pump mnethod. For someone going for a clean enginebay, with several mods and money to support them properly, I go for the electronic actuation.
In this case, after driving the car, I decided to go with the wire-open method. First, an SE has the most low end of any rotary save a turbo...heavy (11.x lb) rotors account for this. So, since it has an excess of low end already, a little loss wont be bad at all. We wanted to remove all mike's emissions, and the air pump woulda looked sorta dumb sitting there running those little ports. IT would be easy for me to install, easy for him to understand, and would work just fine while keeping the bay super clean.
So, I removed his entire intake down to the block, including vacuum rail with fuel rails. I cleaned out the accumulated crud off the block, and got a 2nd gen (86-88) intake for it. Note that an 89-91 intake will also fit this engine, but there is an extra valve (VDI) in the middle intake of the s5 NA intake that requires actuation at 5.5k rpm, and with no rpm switch to activate it, you *will* in fact lose power with this one wired open, so I went with the s4. Plus, theyre real cheap and readily available.
While the intake parts were on the bench I cleaned em all up and blocked off anything that didnt need to be there...subzero startup valve, acv, bac, secondary injector ports (2nd gens have 4 injectors), the nipple for the primary injectors air bleed socket, etc. I lubed and installed the 6 port sleeves with the new pineapple inserts (great mod for 50 bucks) and the s4 lower intake mani.
Then I removed the stock fuel rail from the s3 vacuum rail, along with the injectors. I opened the injectors using a spare harnes connector I have saved, connected to battery power. Then I blow 100psi compressed air through them to remove crud and such. I then installed them and the rail on the block. I ran new fuel lines directly from the rail to the firewall connection and fuel filter. I also replaced the **leaking** fuel pulsation dampner (FPD) on the fuel rail, which is the cause of many thousands of rx-7 fuel fires. I use a banjo bolt, available out of any stock 86-88 NONturbo primary (lower) fuel rail. The pulsation dampner performs no useful action in the car, but can cost you thousands in repairs should it leak.
I noted that I needed to keep the following vacuum lines: 2 vacuum advance to the distributor, fuel pressure regulator on the fuelrail, brake booster supply, cruise control (mike's call). I ran these lines tee'd several times and finally into the lone nipple left on the s4 lower intake mani, on the outside edge. I then installed the s4 upper intake (dynamic chamber). Also, stock oil metering (4 into 1) was kept, but this doesnt get vacuum, rather "fresh air" from ports on the dynamic chamber. On the 2gen intake, these ports are on the front, and I used the stock one, which is a large vacuum line, that goes on the very top nipple.
I also had to use some short (primary) 2gen oil injectors in the rear housing and intake runner, to make them fit. The SE rotorhousings are taller than a 2gen (what the intake was made to fit) so the injectors actually hit if you use the stock s3 ones, so be sure to have some spares handy or plan to block off the ports and run premix.
Now, it's time for the throttle body. The s3 stock TB is so wimpy I dont see how it moves any air, and is possibly the source of largest gain when replaced. I estimate a stock s4 NA TB is 30% larger.You must use an s4/s5 NA TB with this mod, the s3 will not come close to fitting. The s4 uses the same TPS btw, so you can use it or your original. I removed everything from the throttle body (TB mod) except the cold-start thermowax (cold idle up) and it's 2 necessary coolant lines. This included secondary butterflies, dashpot, etc.
Now I put it on, along with the 2gen TB intake elbow...the 1gen intake hose no longer fits the 2gen TB. Now I had a real problem, as the s3 airflow meter is real little (2.5" OD) versus a stock s4 AFM (3" OD) adn it's respective hose. I went to lowe's and got a fernco 3"-2" rubber drain adaptor, and lubed the 2" end up enough so it'd fit the afm. Now mike's afm is almost directly on the intake, and I installed a cone filter on the end (using an adaptor) since the stock box would no longer fit.
I had to modify the cruise control bracket on the 2gen intake just a hair to get proper tensioning on the cruise cable, and that was about all I had to do to get this puppy rolling. Power increase from 4.5K on up was a good 15-20 on the butt dyno, though not official. This is one of, if not THE, best gain I have ever gotten out of a single mod on an NA. IT equals the power you gain with a full exhaust on a 2gen NA, which is often reported to be 20hp+. I would say with a full exhaust on this car, it'll be a quick NA.
Another note is that the fans on the 1gens seem to run like hell, and sap a lot of power, no doubt. I recommend an e-fan. Not a POS autozone fan either. I use a shrouded fan, believe it or not fits the stock FC (and sa/fb) radiator very well. IT is from a 91-96 ford escort...it is shrouded, 16"+, has 3 speeds, and moves a SHITLOAD of air. Best of all, they can be obtained for $25-60 all day long at junkyards. I recommend this mod as well, and it should free up a good 5 more hp, especially on top end.
Anybody with q's feel free to ask. Someone should archive/rate/sticky this somewhere for you guys, cause before I tackled the project I searched yourall's forum here and couldnt find any details on the swap. It is definitely worthwhile for you guys, and if you DIY you can complete it for under $75 easily.
03-17-06, 08:25 AM
#13
1972 Rx2/1988 Rx7 TurboII
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247hp on the stock SE block
S5 intake, S5 coils, S5 fuel rail, S4 turbo, 255lph walbro fuel pump, Haltech... other goodies... but you get the point.
S5 intake, S5 coils, S5 fuel rail, S4 turbo, 255lph walbro fuel pump, Haltech... other goodies... but you get the point.
03-17-06, 08:34 PM
#14
The only thing I question is the statement about the s5 manifold will make less power than a s4.
This is not true, as shorter runner lengths create more hp up top. Assuming the VDI is in the short runner length mode. It also has alot to do with the speed of the incoming air....perhaps the stock s3 AFM is to restrictive to notice such gains?
Anyone ever played around with getting a s4 to work? CJ
This is not true, as shorter runner lengths create more hp up top. Assuming the VDI is in the short runner length mode. It also has alot to do with the speed of the incoming air....perhaps the stock s3 AFM is to restrictive to notice such gains?
Anyone ever played around with getting a s4 to work? CJ
03-17-06, 09:22 PM
#15
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http://max7.rx-7.org/mods/mod-afm.htm
Originally Posted by pp13bnos
...Anyone ever played around with getting a s4 to work? CJ
03-18-06, 04:18 AM
#18
GSL with GSL-SE block, 45dcoe, rb header, custom exhaust, MSD_DIS, under drive pulley, 6th port sleves removed... It did 140 a week later... damn matts **** is really peaky compaired to mine. He needs a MSD... Look at my beautiful tq curve. Thankyou MSD!!
Last edited by Hyper4mance2k; 03-18-06 at 04:24 AM.
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