Need help picking a carb
12-02-14, 11:59 PM
#1
Need help picking a carb
Alright guys, I've had it with my nikki. I'm getting a new carb and can't seem to make up my mind. I'm currently a stock ported 12a with plans to eventually port and get some track use, no drag mind you.
So what I'm looking for is whether or not I should go with the RB Holley since it has the one of the nicer chokes available for my setup, or if I should go with either the IDA or DCOE that mazdatrix offers. If either of those last 2 have the potential to go with an electric choke then props to that one. What are yalls opinions on which one I should get and why?
Don't forget this is still my street car so streetablity is something to consider along with the performance. I don't mind if I have to retune for a track run while I'm at the track as long as its a simple enough turn the key and go for street use.
I've read that the IDA is best for track use but doesn't street well, but how does it deal with fuel slosh on hard corners.
I've also read that the DCOE is probably the most streetable of the 3 but might be more susceptible to heat soak due to its location over the engine what with it being a side draft. Also I've read that the Mikunis were side draft but dealt with corner slosh very well, so how does the DCOE compare.
I've already installed an RB Holley into a 2nd gen for a friend who didn't listen to me about the fuel pulsation dampner and watched his bay go up in flames. As well as he is running right now I like the carb, but shes a massive beast. I also don't know too much about the Holley outside of the nightmares I've heard about Holleys falling apart, so how does it deal with slosh on corners etc.
Also how do these deal with the stock fuel pump vs an aftermarket like the Mallory that RB sells. IDK I'm typing all this up fast at work, I'll get back when I get home.
So what I'm looking for is whether or not I should go with the RB Holley since it has the one of the nicer chokes available for my setup, or if I should go with either the IDA or DCOE that mazdatrix offers. If either of those last 2 have the potential to go with an electric choke then props to that one. What are yalls opinions on which one I should get and why?
Don't forget this is still my street car so streetablity is something to consider along with the performance. I don't mind if I have to retune for a track run while I'm at the track as long as its a simple enough turn the key and go for street use.
I've read that the IDA is best for track use but doesn't street well, but how does it deal with fuel slosh on hard corners.
I've also read that the DCOE is probably the most streetable of the 3 but might be more susceptible to heat soak due to its location over the engine what with it being a side draft. Also I've read that the Mikunis were side draft but dealt with corner slosh very well, so how does the DCOE compare.
I've already installed an RB Holley into a 2nd gen for a friend who didn't listen to me about the fuel pulsation dampner and watched his bay go up in flames. As well as he is running right now I like the carb, but shes a massive beast. I also don't know too much about the Holley outside of the nightmares I've heard about Holleys falling apart, so how does it deal with slosh on corners etc.
Also how do these deal with the stock fuel pump vs an aftermarket like the Mallory that RB sells. IDK I'm typing all this up fast at work, I'll get back when I get home.
12-03-14, 09:12 AM
#2
Waffles - hmmm good
iTrader: (1)
Nikki will give you the best all around performance street and autox. Even the side drafts have some cornering
slosh issues (Dell, Mikunis, DCOE). The IDA is a great choice.
What I don't understand is why you need a choke? Its nice but after a minute or so the idle will stabilize and be
fine for most of these carbs.
Don't go near a Holley with a rotary. Seen too many folks go down that path and have a lot of issues. If you really
know Holleys and tuning them you can get them to work. From what I've seen its not easy or cheap.
slosh issues (Dell, Mikunis, DCOE). The IDA is a great choice.
What I don't understand is why you need a choke? Its nice but after a minute or so the idle will stabilize and be
fine for most of these carbs.
Don't go near a Holley with a rotary. Seen too many folks go down that path and have a lot of issues. If you really
know Holleys and tuning them you can get them to work. From what I've seen its not easy or cheap.
12-03-14, 10:26 AM
#3
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here is a run down of the various carbs.
Holley: my opinion is to stay away, the holley needs a lot more work than everything else to run properly on a rotary, and even then they don't like corners.
Nikki: probably the best choice for a stock, or mildly ported 12A, mainly because its already setup for that engine. there are quite a lot of mods to make them better, almost all of which are simple. the nikki is also the least expensive option, with the webers and holleys you need to buy a lot of jets and things, and it adds up. unless you happen to get close right off the bat, with a Weber/dell/other you can easily spend the cost of the carb in jets and parts, which is something the nikki doesn't need.
Weber DCOE/dellorto: these work fine, i'm not a fan of the DCOE accelerator pump, or choke setups, they are fiddly. air filters are always a PITA. heat doesn't seem to be a problem*, and they seem to do corners ok. the wraparound intake really puts the power band in the middle, so it isn't a very dramatic difference from stock, and then after the fiddly accel pump stuff, i'd rather do something else.
Weber IDA: my favorite of the bunch, i think. its really simple, very user friendly. it likes corners. its also very versatile, it can be setup to run on anything from a stock 12A, to a peripheral port 13B. there is no choke, but if my P port can start cold and run on its own after 30 seconds, i question needing a choke. oh and it looks cool, you can put it on your mantle.
i think with a stock port 12A, unless you're racing, the Nikki is the best choice.
fuel pumps: the stock fuel pump is only sufficient for stock hp. any carb will work with the stock fuel pump, but you will run out of fuel up top if you're making more than about 115-120hp at the engine.
*heat and carbs are interesting, the P port puts the intake right next to the exhaust, and thus the carb has a big temp swing, and i have found that the carb actually likes some heat, if it is too cold it doesn't work as well. i am sure there is also a temp where its too hot, but that hasn't been an issue.
Holley: my opinion is to stay away, the holley needs a lot more work than everything else to run properly on a rotary, and even then they don't like corners.
Nikki: probably the best choice for a stock, or mildly ported 12A, mainly because its already setup for that engine. there are quite a lot of mods to make them better, almost all of which are simple. the nikki is also the least expensive option, with the webers and holleys you need to buy a lot of jets and things, and it adds up. unless you happen to get close right off the bat, with a Weber/dell/other you can easily spend the cost of the carb in jets and parts, which is something the nikki doesn't need.
Weber DCOE/dellorto: these work fine, i'm not a fan of the DCOE accelerator pump, or choke setups, they are fiddly. air filters are always a PITA. heat doesn't seem to be a problem*, and they seem to do corners ok. the wraparound intake really puts the power band in the middle, so it isn't a very dramatic difference from stock, and then after the fiddly accel pump stuff, i'd rather do something else.
Weber IDA: my favorite of the bunch, i think. its really simple, very user friendly. it likes corners. its also very versatile, it can be setup to run on anything from a stock 12A, to a peripheral port 13B. there is no choke, but if my P port can start cold and run on its own after 30 seconds, i question needing a choke. oh and it looks cool, you can put it on your mantle.
i think with a stock port 12A, unless you're racing, the Nikki is the best choice.
fuel pumps: the stock fuel pump is only sufficient for stock hp. any carb will work with the stock fuel pump, but you will run out of fuel up top if you're making more than about 115-120hp at the engine.
*heat and carbs are interesting, the P port puts the intake right next to the exhaust, and thus the carb has a big temp swing, and i have found that the carb actually likes some heat, if it is too cold it doesn't work as well. i am sure there is also a temp where its too hot, but that hasn't been an issue.
12-05-14, 08:04 AM
#4
Original Blackfuries Plyr
Carb Questions for you
Wow! as always J9, fountain of youth you have there behind the computer!
Question or two: I have a stree-ported 13b S4 NA with 2mm Atkins, S5 Hardened stat gears, T2 oil pump, smashed rear oil pres reg, and a few other goodies.. do you happen to know ( I am unsure if it is a IDA or DCOE) but if a former blow thru Webber with aux ports would give me the all around top end since if I can understand it properly, the aux ports would act like a set of smaller secondaires?
Also, would you happen to know if a Webber with 40MM Ventures could handle my usual 8k+ or slightly above that and still make good power?
Thank you much,
~Tim
Question or two: I have a stree-ported 13b S4 NA with 2mm Atkins, S5 Hardened stat gears, T2 oil pump, smashed rear oil pres reg, and a few other goodies.. do you happen to know ( I am unsure if it is a IDA or DCOE) but if a former blow thru Webber with aux ports would give me the all around top end since if I can understand it properly, the aux ports would act like a set of smaller secondaires?
Also, would you happen to know if a Webber with 40MM Ventures could handle my usual 8k+ or slightly above that and still make good power?
Thank you much,
~Tim
here is a run down of the various carbs.
Holley: my opinion is to stay away, the holley needs a lot more work than everything else to run properly on a rotary, and even then they don't like corners.
Nikki: probably the best choice for a stock, or mildly ported 12A, mainly because its already setup for that engine. there are quite a lot of mods to make them better, almost all of which are simple. the nikki is also the least expensive option, with the webers and holleys you need to buy a lot of jets and things, and it adds up. unless you happen to get close right off the bat, with a Weber/dell/other you can easily spend the cost of the carb in jets and parts, which is something the nikki doesn't need.
Weber DCOE/dellorto: these work fine, i'm not a fan of the DCOE accelerator pump, or choke setups, they are fiddly. air filters are always a PITA. heat doesn't seem to be a problem*, and they seem to do corners ok. the wraparound intake really puts the power band in the middle, so it isn't a very dramatic difference from stock, and then after the fiddly accel pump stuff, i'd rather do something else.
Weber IDA: my favorite of the bunch, i think. its really simple, very user friendly. it likes corners. its also very versatile, it can be setup to run on anything from a stock 12A, to a peripheral port 13B. there is no choke, but if my P port can start cold and run on its own after 30 seconds, i question needing a choke. oh and it looks cool, you can put it on your mantle.
i think with a stock port 12A, unless you're racing, the Nikki is the best choice.
fuel pumps: the stock fuel pump is only sufficient for stock hp. any carb will work with the stock fuel pump, but you will run out of fuel up top if you're making more than about 115-120hp at the engine.
*heat and carbs are interesting, the P port puts the intake right next to the exhaust, and thus the carb has a big temp swing, and i have found that the carb actually likes some heat, if it is too cold it doesn't work as well. i am sure there is also a temp where its too hot, but that hasn't been an issue.
Holley: my opinion is to stay away, the holley needs a lot more work than everything else to run properly on a rotary, and even then they don't like corners.
Nikki: probably the best choice for a stock, or mildly ported 12A, mainly because its already setup for that engine. there are quite a lot of mods to make them better, almost all of which are simple. the nikki is also the least expensive option, with the webers and holleys you need to buy a lot of jets and things, and it adds up. unless you happen to get close right off the bat, with a Weber/dell/other you can easily spend the cost of the carb in jets and parts, which is something the nikki doesn't need.
Weber DCOE/dellorto: these work fine, i'm not a fan of the DCOE accelerator pump, or choke setups, they are fiddly. air filters are always a PITA. heat doesn't seem to be a problem*, and they seem to do corners ok. the wraparound intake really puts the power band in the middle, so it isn't a very dramatic difference from stock, and then after the fiddly accel pump stuff, i'd rather do something else.
Weber IDA: my favorite of the bunch, i think. its really simple, very user friendly. it likes corners. its also very versatile, it can be setup to run on anything from a stock 12A, to a peripheral port 13B. there is no choke, but if my P port can start cold and run on its own after 30 seconds, i question needing a choke. oh and it looks cool, you can put it on your mantle.
i think with a stock port 12A, unless you're racing, the Nikki is the best choice.
fuel pumps: the stock fuel pump is only sufficient for stock hp. any carb will work with the stock fuel pump, but you will run out of fuel up top if you're making more than about 115-120hp at the engine.
*heat and carbs are interesting, the P port puts the intake right next to the exhaust, and thus the carb has a big temp swing, and i have found that the carb actually likes some heat, if it is too cold it doesn't work as well. i am sure there is also a temp where its too hot, but that hasn't been an issue.
12-08-14, 09:58 AM
#6
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Wow! as always J9, fountain of youth you have there behind the computer!
Question or two: I have a stree-ported 13b S4 NA with 2mm Atkins, S5 Hardened stat gears, T2 oil pump, smashed rear oil pres reg, and a few other goodies.. do you happen to know ( I am unsure if it is a IDA or DCOE) but if a former blow thru Webber with aux ports would give me the all around top end since if I can understand it properly, the aux ports would act like a set of smaller secondaires?
Also, would you happen to know if a Webber with 40MM Ventures could handle my usual 8k+ or slightly above that and still make good power?
Thank you much,
~Tim
Question or two: I have a stree-ported 13b S4 NA with 2mm Atkins, S5 Hardened stat gears, T2 oil pump, smashed rear oil pres reg, and a few other goodies.. do you happen to know ( I am unsure if it is a IDA or DCOE) but if a former blow thru Webber with aux ports would give me the all around top end since if I can understand it properly, the aux ports would act like a set of smaller secondaires?
Also, would you happen to know if a Webber with 40MM Ventures could handle my usual 8k+ or slightly above that and still make good power?
Thank you much,
~Tim
40-42mm venturies should be about right, try both.
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