Alright this is the story:
Had to swap a S4 short block in my car. Complete emmissions removed. Retained all S3 wiring, FI ect, ignition ect..

Problem: I dont believe my injectors are spraying fuel. My fuel pump is working though. I've tried nearly everything I could think of, and searched for even more, without results.

I have everything plugged in:
TPS
Injectors
AFM
Water Temp sensors
Oil sensors
Air sensor
Variable Resistor
ECU

Things that I had to replace:
Whole ECU harness from Ecu to engine

I've bolted down the grounds FROM THE ECU on top of the front rotor housing, on top of each other. Do I need to do different?

Question about my distributor:
When I tried to put it on TDC, is that having the one mark on the front pully at 12O'clock and the other at 1? Or is it the other way around?

I am getting igntion, but perhaps I'm not getting it in the correct place (out of time).

I've spent soo many hours putting this back together, and I'm getting to my deadline to have it done.. I need to use it a little atleast. If theres something small and stupid I've over looked, please let me know.

I also have ALL new battery cables, FC fuse box and a good ground network. As soon as I can, I'll show some pics too.

 

Few things to check if the injectors are not firing:

Be sure that the ECU and injectors are getting power. You can do this by checking the voltages at each pin on the ECU as outlined in the Haynes manual or the FSM. Maybe something got wired wrong or a fuse is blown out in the 2nd gen fuse box.

The injectors need the trailing ignition to work to fire. You said that you had spark. Did you check the trailing spark as well?

There should also be a wire with a blue spade connector plugged into the trailing - terminal. The ECU uses this signal to fire the injectors. Make sure it is plugged in. You can also try plugging into the leading - if the trailing is not working.


The other common mistake is not bolting the grounds on top of the engine. You have already checked this, so it is probably not this. Many people do forget them, though. They ground the ECU,so without them, there is no fuel.

Good luck. Let me know if you have any questions.

Kent

 

Before you dissapear, what ignitor is the trailing, I dont know how many times I've asked.. Sorry. This may be my problem too. Thanks for the reply.

 

The ignitor towards the alt is the trailing. For the coils, the front is trailing, the rear is leading. Pull of the trailing coil high tension wire. Put it near the srtut tower, crank engine and see if there is spark. Next, make sure that the blue spade connector is plugged on the trailing coil - terminal. The trailing ignitor/coil will have a YG wire (yellow w/ green stripe). The leading will have a YL wire (yellow w/ a blue stripe).

If you have spark, and the spade connector is connected, there are a couple other things to check. On the passenger side under the windshield washer reservior, there is a connector (yellow, I think) with 4 wires comming into and out of it. Make sure that this is plugged in. It carries power to the ECU/injectors as well as the sigmnal from the trailing coil.

Next, check the voltages at the ECU. They should be within the range (or close) to the values given in the Hayes manual/FSM. Some values may be a bit different becuase those values are for a warm engine.

Hope this helps.

Kent

 

Which injectors are you running?

 

Update, I still need help!
I got the injectors and pump to turn on and make noise. I had to make a jump for the fuel pump short connector or simmilar. This sucks, I need to get this car started soon. Is there anything else I need plugged or unplugged?

Oh and ALL my warning lights are on and stay on, reguardless, what does this mean? I have all fluids full and ect. Oh and I dont have the headlights and grounds that go with them hooked up, is this my problem?

 

Yes, get those wires grounded. The power to the headlights don't matter for now, but a good portion of the electrical stuff is grounded at that point by the headlight. Try that out and report back. We will go from there.

Kent

 

I know if the alternator belt is off all the warning lights will be on. So maybe if the main battery cable to the alt is off the lights would be on. Good luck.

 

Checked all grounds and they're all good. This is REALLY pissing me off, and I'm pissed at the guy that sold it to me even more now. Especially how I paid $2k when the engine is junk and its been in an accident.

Whats the short fuel pump connector supposed to connect to? I have everything that I have available plugged in and all my warning lights are still on.

 

You mean the warning lights come on when the key is turned to on, right? It is supposed to do that. They will go out (assuming everything is connected, no low fluids) once the engine starts.

What the short fuel pump connector does is allows the fuel pump to run when the engine is off (key turned to on). Nothing plugs into it. It is mainly there for testing fuel pressure, injector leaking, etc. If you put a jumper wire across the two terminals in the plug, the fuel pump will run whenever the key is in the 'on' position (engine doesn't need to be running). Normally, it is like this:

- When you crank the engine, the fuel pump relay will turn on the fuel pump.
- once you stop cranking (engine starts), there is a switch in the AFM that keeps the fuel pump running (door opens, keeps the fuel pump relay energized).

This is done so that the fuel pump only runs when the engine is running. Mainly it is a safety thing. If you get in an accident and the engine stalls (key still on), they don't want the pump to keep running possibly pumping fuel into a potential fire hazzard. For now, you can use the short fuel pump connector (keep a jumper across it). That way the pump will run with the key on (just like the earlier RX-7s).

So, what is it doing (just cranking and not starting?)? Does the tach move at all when cranking? Have you checked spark from both coils? Try pulling out the spark plugs. Are they wet with fuel (may be flooded) or are they dry (not getting fuel)?

Kent

 

The tac moves to mabye 200 rpm. Its cranking but not firing. I did check the plugs but they didnt quite smell like gas. What are my options, I did smell what seemed to be a little gassy in the exuast in the rear, does it just get a little fuel until its spinning alot? Also all those stupid low fluid lights are on, what a pain in the ***, I was thinking bad grounds again. I hear all those relays clicking and what not, but I dont hear the pump come on when I turn on the switch, only when I jump the short connector.

 

Well, since the tach moves, the trailing must be firing. It can be hard to hear the fuel pump while cranking. Doing the short fuel pump connector thing should be fine. Do you have that blue spade connector plugged into the trailing - terminal? The ECU needs this to fire the injectors. It does sound like you are getting fuel, though.

The ECU will fire fixed squirts of fuel (based on coolant temp) during cranking. It squirts both injectors at the same time when it sees a pulse (firing) of the trailing coil.

All the warning lights will come on when the key is on (it is to show that they are working (no burned out bulbs)). Once the car starts, they should go out. We could also talk on MSN or something. I'll try to guide you through it the best I can or you can fly me out to PA .

Kent

 

(looks in wallet for ticket money....yea..) Well I guess we can chat. I'll go run and clean the plugs and crank her without the jumper and see what happens. PM me with aim or msn names?

 

Is anyone else on at this time, I'm at my dads where my car is, and I'm trying to talk to anyone that can help right now. I got my engine to run with a few snuffs of starting fluid but it still wont run on its own. Its not flooded and timing is good. Anyone?

 

I am here now. I will be around for the next several hours if you need help.

 

I was having the same trouble with my SE not starting, and flooding. Pulled the plugs, cleaned them, drained the old gas out of the tank, via the drain plug, put in fresh gas and some B-12 chemtool. Still wouldn't start. Plulled plugs again and cleaned, poured about a cup of motor oil in plug holes via long funnel. Put plugs in and it started first time. Smoked a bunch but it ran, now it starts up just fine. Many years ago, I had to pull start one that wasn't tunrning over fast enought to fire. Found out I had a bad starter. Pull start works good on a flooded engine too. Good luck. Charles

 

Update: I've checked the ecu voltages and everything but the injectors were normal.
I kept on getting a blinking voltage that said : 159mV
Does this mean its time to find a new ECU?

 

oy that sounds like a project i wouldn't be willing to tackle, swapping the S4 ECU in.

my -SE is running on the S4 motor and intake, using the stock S3 ECU, wiring, and injectors.

you're sure the fuel pump is working? turn the key on and flip the AFM open with your finger, you should hear it.

does the engine try to catch? does is spin freely, or can you discern the compression pulses? try reseating your connections. that's what got mine running.

 

Like I said in my first post, Its ALL S3 Except the block. I'm talking about my S3 computer not working right, at the moment. I did order new injector connectors, we'll see if that will work, then I guess I need a new ECU?

 

Bump for some help?..

 

did you make sure all your fuses and fusible links are intact? try reseating all the connectors... i think i solved my ignition issue by reseating the conection to the main relay.

 

Yes I did.

 

you never took the main pulley off did you? if so your timing could be off greatly.

I had this problem when i did my s4 swap and that was what prevented me from cranking. sounded like it didn't have compression, but i read up on here on how to properly set the pulley, put the distributor in with the arrow on the rotor button facing the 9'0clock direction, and it crunk right up. You want the bottom most line on the pulley on the marker, i believe it's the yellow line.

how to be sure your timing is right:

take out the bottom spark plug on the rear rotor.
grab a small mirror and look into the whole.
spin the motor until you see an apex seal.
spin the motor backwards just a bit so the that apex seal will be in between the top and bottom spark plug holes.
make sure your pulley is on the marker.


If you're positive that timing is right then disreguard this reply, I think some pics would really help everyone help you though.

 

i don't think it's possible to put the pulley on wrong. i seem to recall the e-shaft pulley only going on one way; the holes don't line up with the studs otherwise.

however, it would be easy to install the distributor incorrectly.

 

Distibutor is on correct. I've checked it 3 times now since the no start.