comet909

I suppose everyone's day come eventually. I let her sit too long. (a couple months) And now she won't start.

Here are the details...

1985 GSL-SE Completely stock with AC minus the pollution equipment and it's got an E-Fan. Plugs and wires are recent.

I've recently (in the past year or two replaced the fuel filter, all fluids, and the usual maintenance.)

Attempt one was a simple de-flood procedure. Pulled the plugs, they were very gassy and wet. Dried them off, wire brushed them, they look pretty clean and they don't have much age on them. Pulled the blue spade connector off and turned it over for about 10 seconds. Squirted a little oil in the plug holes. Turned it over about 5 seconds. Put the plugs back in re-connected blue spade connector. And still won't start.

Turns over strong and the battery is fully charged. Compression sounds good without the plugs in it.

Tried the same thing again and no luck. I thought the oil might be contaminated with gas from being flooded so I changed the oil and filter. Checked for spark and it IS getting spark. Then did the same de-flood procedure. Again no luck.

Once or twice it just started to fire but didn't catch. I'm at a loss. Can anyone offer any advice on where to go from here. I'd greatly appreciate any guidance. Thanks a lot.

sneezix

It sounds like the typical flooding problem. Just keep at it. It usually takes me a few clean plugs, clear fuel, squirt oil cycles to get it started.

One thing that I did do differently the last time, that seemed to help, was to squirt oil, put in plugs, crank (without the Fuel Injectors turned on), pull plugs, and add more oil. Put plugs back in, reconnect the FI fuse, and start up.

74RX4

iTrader: (10)

Push or pull start it with another vehicle. Make sure ignition is on, put into 2nd gear and let out the clutch while the other vehicle supplies the motion. If you push start, the other vehicle should get your car going 5-10 mph then stop before you let out the clutch. You don't want the two vehicles smashing together. I like to drag it with a long tow strap. That way you can keep pulling after you let out the clutch. Don't run into the towing vehicle when your car suddenly starts. Might take a couple tries if it's flooded badly. Select your tow/push driver and location carefully.

StumpDrummer

how cold was it when you tried to crank...cinccy gets pretty cold....thinkin ice in lines....if your not getting any gas ....cant remember if 85 model was fuel injected or not...havnt had my coffee yet...but pull start sounds like fun if plugs soaking wet most likely flooded badly or coolant in the engine..hopefully not coolant good luck and have fun with your 7 ...mine has draw blood several times on me,its a love hate relationship..we love to hate each other!!

comet909

Okay, tried another de-flood but this time I tried squirted some oil then put the plugs back in, turned it over pulled plugs cleaned them off put them back in and pulled off the air tube and squirted some starting fluid into the throttle body.

She started right off the bat for about 1/2 second then died. Then would fire up again. I'm starting to think maybe it's not getting fuel.

Also, I noticed that my secondary valves (the two on the bottom) were open. Shouldn't they be closed when the car is cold. Thanks.

Man_in_black49464

iTrader: (1)

did you listen for the fuel pump to see if its even running? its right under the driver seat so turn the key to on and listen for the hum from under your door.

comet909

How do I go about listening for the fuel pump. Doesn't it only pump while it's turning over? Is there another way to tell if its working?

LongDuck

OP: You're right, the Fuel Pump (FP) only runs when the engine is turning, specifically when the Air Flow Metering (AFM) door is open because the engine is sucking in air. With the engine cranking, you won't be able to hear the fuel pump.

Bypass to check for FP flow by going to the AFM and looking for the white 2-pole connector located there. Make a short length of wire 2-3" with 2 spade connectors on each end, and shunt this across the 2 poles in that connector. This turns on the fuel pump ALL the time that the ignition is on - and is designed for you to be able to check that the fuel rail and injectors aren't leaking before you install the intake. At any rate, turn the key to 'on', and then go back to the engine bay and listen for fuel pressure in the lines - it will sound like a high pitched hiss. If you're getting good fuel pressure to the line, then the FP is working fine, and I would start looking at other potential causes. If no hiss - then no Fuel Pressure, and you're missing the 'fuel' part of Air-Fuel mixture.

If you have good fuel pressure hiss, turn off the ignition and remove the key. At the driver's side engine bay area at the coils, there's a white wire connected to the negative pole of either the leading or trailing ignition coil - this is your Tach sensor, and also tells the ECU when to fire the fuel injectors. Is your Tach working okay when it starts momentarily? If so, you're getting a clean Tach sensor signal, and the injectors are probably firing just fine. Incidentally, this is a good way to turn the engine over to de-flood without pulling your plugs. Just to check function, move the white wire lead to the same position on the negative of the OTHER coil, and try it - if the engine starts (and the Tach works when it didn't before), then you have a bad coil (the *other* one!), or a bad connection.

If you have good Tach signal on both Coils, and nothing changes, then I'd start looking at the 'Air' part of your Air-Fuel mixture equation; remove the air filter cover and the air filter, take a stick or screwdriver and push the fuel door open (*you did remove the Fuel Pump Bypass from before, right???). With ignition on, when you push the fuel door open, it should slide open smoothly and easily without any resistance. When it opens, you should hear the 'hiss' of fuel pressure to the rail. If the door doesn't open easily with very slight spring pressure returning it to closed, spray some WD40 or other light lubricant into the opening to try and lube the AFM air door until it moves freely. If it moves freely, but you DON'T hear the hiss when it opens, then you may have a bad AFM air door switch, which may also prevent you from testing the FP Bypass method I described before - as the shunt simply shorts the switch to make the FP run.

Aside from these 'easy' things - it could be something more complicated like an Intake Air Temperature Sensor (there are 2; one in the AFM, and another in the DEI Chamber), or a Coolant Temp Sensor on the back of the water pump.

Try the easy things first and then report back. I'm sure you'll figure it out pretty soon. Good luck,

Edited: Also, might want to consider that an ignitor has gone out on you, but that's remote. They're both (leading and trailing) located on the sides of the Distributor shaft, and before you try and swap them or change them, replace your Distributor Cap and Rotor - they're cheap, and sometimes there are hairline cracks that cause problems when weather changes.

Also, remove the 2x12mm nuts that hold the air pipe to the Throttle Body and make sure nothing's in there that would restrict airflow. Once, my car was driven through a deep puddle, and water managed to flood the Air Filter and pool in the bottom of the air pipe, resulting in weird starting conditions like you've described... Just throwing out some more ideas for you to check.

comet909

Awesome Stuff!!! I'll be giving it a go tonight or tommorow. I'll let you know how it works out, Thanks.

comet909

Well, I attached the jumper wire and turned the key on and it was whisper quiet. Then stuck my head under the drivers side and didn't hear anything there either. Is my next step from here to just replace the fuel pump or should I try something else first?

comet909

Well, it started. I pulled the driver bin. (Some rust in there I'll need to take care this winter)

Unplugged the fuel pump and put the jumper in place. I reached under the car and jiggled the wires a little bit. Put a volt-meter on the plug and turned the key on. Sure enough. 12 volts to the pump. Connected it back up and pulled the main fuel hose. Stuck it in an empty can and turned the key on. It filled the can pretty quick. So I decided to give a go and see if she'd start. Fired up on the first try. I let it get warmed up then turned it off and started it up again. Pulled the jumper cable to see if that would kill it but it didn't.

I'm guessing there's a loose/corroded wire somewhere under there. I'll have to jack it up and take a look but in the mean time there are some other things that need fixing on the car before I get it on the street. Hopefully later this week... Thanks for the help I'll post back here when there's more of a final verdict.

Also, I may have a bad coil. I seem to recall that once or twice when cranking it and trying to get it to start the tach wasn't jumping. That's one thing I'll check for sure.

LongDuck

Well, glad you figured it out as a wiring issue to the fuel pump.

Also, Tach 'jumping' isn't so much a symptom of anything, because if the car starts, that's all you want, right? Don't bother chasing down stuff that doesn't affect function of the cars reliability - as a jumping or non-jumping tach really doesn't matter in the long run.

What you found to be the root cause is likely some collateral damage due to the rust under the Driver's Side Bin storage area. Because of this location being exposed to the wheel well, it tends to collect any road salts that corrode the metal here, and there are some connectors under there for the fuel pump that obviously got damaged. Incidentally, you'll also find your Cruise Control Module in there, so have a look at that as well, and make sure there aren't any othe wiring issues you'll need to fix while it's opened up.

Good luck, and get that SE back on the road where it belongs!

DallasFC1

iTrader: (2)

Should you go looking for loose and damaged wires, do yourself a favor first.

Make life easy on yourself and use a good multimeter and check continuity on the wires first. Since your car does not have the relay delete mod (such as mine does, I.E. i turn the key and the fuel pump instantly turns on, instead of at cranking only...)
you will be able to test at the relay well enough. The relay is under the drivers dash, near the radio (closer to the gas pedal side) and more towards the steering wheel than the firewall.

Should help you find it proto easy, since it's the only relay under there really should not take you long to find it.

Now, I'll also mention this too. My Rx7 was recently stolen, and recovered the same day by myself (had a good idea who the theif was...) If you go the route of getting under there and such, you can also put a disabling switch for the fuel pump very easy there. Since you will have access to the +12v input wire for the relay, simply put a switch inline there and mount in a discreet location for yourself. Unless you are either not that paranoid, or forgetful and afraid you will forget to turn the pump on

I've had plenty of race cars, so I'm used to turning on lots of switches before firing the car up... I just figured I would tell you since we were on the topic

Good luck and please change out your softlines, filter, and such when you change out your pump! You will thank yourself later!

=-DallasFC1-=