OK, so for the past few days I've been driving a Miata since the Mound was waiting for it's RB system. The Miata had a RB exhaust and chassis brace. It cornered like a go-cart and felt tight as hell.

Get the Mound today and I was expecting to be once again dismayed by the slop that it has, but man it sucks! It's all stock and worn to hell I'm sure. The play in the steering wheel is DEPLORABLE, I mean at least a good 1"-1 1/2" either way on the wheel. Twice it almost got me into trouble on the way home.

Second thing is the clunks I feel when I let off the accelerator and the lurches a bit (mal adjusted TPS I guess). It feels like the car is stopping and the suspension is going about a foot before getting pulled back. I mean it is horrible, from the back, from the front, everything. Driveshaft is $400 new.

So, new suspension, shocks, struts, poly bushings front, new rubber rear, will this stiffen up the mound? I want it to feel rock solid like that little Miata. Is new suspension setup the answer??

Right on.

 

replacing the recirculating ball steering with rack & pinion would help...

 

Haha, you have the same problem as me. My friend has a 1992 Miata that I have been working on and driving often. I want that feel for my car as well, lol. Although, with my new tires, I did out corner a damn lowered acura for the first time on an on ramp. I held a steady 60 MPH on a 40 MPH on ramp the whole way...He couldnt hang .

~T.J.

 

Miata's are simply phenomenal for handling feel.... they're just another world. My recommendation is not to drive one

 

New struts, shocks, springs, poly bushings up front, leave the rear bushings alone and drop the rear swaybar, adjust your steering box, and check your TPS. You're more than welcome to come feel mine out as I've done all that...except the TPS (the webers don't need it).

 

As if it's a drop-in....

Perhaps adjusting what you have would help

 

Thanks, inittab, I've never stumbled across that wonderfully detailed how-to before. Even though our recirc-ball steering still sucks, at least we can adjust it.

 

Why wouldnt he want to swap the rear bushings while hes at it? Could it make it too stiff?

 

Yes, that's just what I wanted to ask... How would you replace the recirculating ball steering !?
It seems a serious common problem on most Sevens, though. My old '84 had huge play on the steering wheel. My current Seven, a '82 model that has been completely restorated when a Marah bodykit was fitted, is way better though. So maybe a little adjusting could do the trick...
As for the suspension: well, most 1st gens are pretty damn worn out by now, aren't they? Go for a serious update if it fits your budget: stiffer springs, decent shocks, replace the bushings (don't forget: the ones on your car are probable about 18 years old and never replaced before), and adjust the settings properly.
Should make a difference... If not: get a Miata, remove all bodypanels, throw out the engine, put in a 3rd Gen rotary, weld on a 1st gen body, and there you go: perfect handling Seven :-)

 

Mound,

A smaller aftermarket steering wheel helps with the slop too.

 

Like a TII or Cosmo engine is a drop in?

Mods are mods. Some take more work than others.

Sheesh.

 

Actually, the engine is a drop in. Everything else is the bitch.

 

You know, I've got a 1979 GS and the steering is fine. There is no slop in the wheel, and minimal play. The thing about the RX is that while on-center may be lacking, once you start turning, the car responds beautifully. It just sounds like you need to do a little maintinence.

Matt
1979 SA22C

 

The TII Engine has different mounts, requiring a custom crossmember with the proper engine isolator mounts or cobbling together the engine with bits from other engines... then there's the wiring harness, intake and exhaust plumbing, intercooler mounting and plumbing, etc...

drupping in a rack & pinion steering box requires modifications to the crossmember, modified hubs, and a custom steering shaft.

By comparison, it's not that difficult, especially as no additional wiring and (with the exception of a power steering rack) no additional plumbing is req'd.

 

sure, of course. But I think the spirit of the post was "help me fix this POS" instead of "help me make this thing into one bad *** machine" I dunno, the response struck me funny....

 

Yeah the spirit of the post was more along the lines of "help me fix my POS." Thanks for calling me out there, the Mound is turning into a POS. As far as the suspension, I plan to upgrade to all new adjustable shocks/struts, new sway bar, bushings, et al. And soon after driving that Miata...I realize that handling is their little niche, but man those things are on rails around the corners! I might also remove the power steering (as it's it leaking a big mess) and go to manual, and tighten things up on the box while I'm there.

As far as rack and pinion, I'm more about simple bolt on mods that keep the car more or less stock or looking stock. Don't want to do any fabricating. It is my daily driver so I don't have that kind of time. But Manntis if you want to build a drop in kit for your website, there ya go, your next money maker....

Right on.

 

Yeah well.... a few weeks back we convinced ya to fix up the "mound" instead of dump'n 'er so I feel kinda responsible for helping you achieve your goal. And I'm glad you're doing it! Sounds like you are on the right path to reconstruction to me. Yer 7'll handle damn nice when your done!

BTW, you might wanna reconsider removal of the power steering. The steering ratio is much higher on the power steering units than the manual ones. In other words, power steering = quicker turning. Oh and if you decide to dump the power steering please consider me for "first dibs" on it.

 

How do you know when you've had real fun driving your seven?

When you arms are worn out!

100 miles of twisties last nigh!

 

Yeah, no reason to feel responsible. I basically just needed some encouragement for the Mound. I'm loving the power of the new exhaust but I got some SERIOUS BACKFIRING CANNON problems to resolve there. It's horrible. Hopefully I can just adjust the TPS or something simple. New 02 sensor...shouldn't be running rich...

I'll do some research on the power steering, just I've always heard manual gives a better feel. I do need to pull it and fix the leaks for sure though.

Right on.

 

Also, replace tie rod ends, ball joints, and pitman arm bushings. Front control arms bushings with polyurethane and tension rod (radius rod) bushings with polyu as well. The FBs can handle well and be fun to drive if properly set-up (tho almost nothing will beat a Miata in driving sensation).

 

Plus not to down the seven at all, but you are talking two different animals all together, The IRS in the Miata (MX-5 is what I prefer to call them, doesn't sound as much like a girl car!) makes it stick like glue, and the rack makes it more responsive. I sold my '96 this spring and miss it dearly! But hey, it was like a trade, we switched for the 7 and a WRX. I hope to get my '83 rex to the same level of handling, but, with oh so much more power!

 

Simply put: the poorly-engineered rear suspension will bind less and therefore move in a more predictable pattern if the bushings are all worn out and soft, this leaves the springs and shocks to give you a more consistent and adjustable suspension platform.

Also, I forgot to include the addition of a bigger front swaybar and the related bushings in my previous post.

 

Well, if it were me, here's what I'd do (in fact, this is what I did, minus one thing).

Replace the springs (might as well spring -- get it???!!! I crack myself up!!-- for new rubber spring perches while you're at it), struts/shocks, bushings (urethane for the front tension rods, A-arms and sway bar, rear sway bar and lower links and possible the Watts links, rubber for the upper control links -- and don't forget the idler arm bushings up front), new lower ball joints and tie rods if needed.

Basically, with each component you replace, you should feel the car 'tighten up' a bit. I've done all that except the lower ball joints and tie rods up front (which I really should do) and, at this point, I would say the feel is close to that of my Miata. Still a bit of play in the steering (not much, but without purchasing a new steering box, all you can do is adjust it, and there will still be a bit of slop in it).

I feel at this point that my 7 corners better than my Miata (RB springs, tockico blues, etc and my Miata is a completely stock 02 model) but not by a huge margin. Basically, the 7 corners flatter and feels nearly, although not quite, as tight as my Miata. For handling confidence though ... well, that category still goes to the Miata (it's hard to beat a well designed independent rear suspension that doesn't slip into snap over-steer).

 

greetings,

i've also been doing searching regarding replacing my suspension for spring. i wonder if anyone here has experience with using polygraphite bushings. are they just as good as polyurethane and can i use them for the rear as well or should i stick to OEM?

also originally i was limiting my resources to bushings, tokico adjustables, and r/b sway bar-n-springs. but some archived posts and here too mention replacing control arms, tie rods, and idler arm bushings. is that part absolutely necessary? what should i look for in deciding whether i should replacing these parts, besides budget? and how hard would these other procedures be for me to do myself? i sort of have my original plan figured out but as to this latter part...?

much appreciation,
norman ng

 

Never got to play with any polygraphite bushings, so I can't tell ya anything there ... sorry. However, generally speaking, it is agreed to replace the lower rear links and possibly the Watts link bushings w/polyurethane (again, don't know about the graphite deal) and replace the upper links with OEM rubber bushings.
The idler arm bushings are very inexpensive and not very difficult to replace for someone with some basic tools and basic mechanical orientation. The biggest thing is to remember mark the position of the arm to ensure you replace it in the same orientation (thus keeping the steering alignment as it was). This is somewhat of a lower concern given the above work you mention, as you will want to get an alignment after replacing the springs, struts and bushings anyway.

The lower ball joints (they are in the lower front control arms) and tie rod ends are things to replace if they are worn and you can afford it. If they are worn, you won't end up with quite the handling feel you would like after replacing the struts, springs and bushings (I'm such a hypocrite here as I haven't replaced my well worn ball joints and tie rod ends ... it is high on my 'to do' list though). Also, if you do replace the ball joints, you may just decide to purchase the entire lower control arm as the new ball joint comes press-fit into the arm (I believe). Something to consider anyway...

One thing you may consider is going with Tokico blues instead of the adjustables, then take the extra money and apply it to the lower ball joints/tie rod ends etc if needed.

These questions become fairly difficult for someone who doesn't know you or your car to answer. Basically, most of the slop in the handling at this point is probably due to the steering box, and adjusting that will help a great deal. After that, given the age of most of our cars, I would say springs, shocks/struts (if they are old) and worn bushings are the next things to replace. Then, lower ball joints (for example, if the rubber around the ball joint is shot/torn/ripped/non-existent, figure the ball joint needs replacing) and tie rod ends.

If you have basic tools and basic mechanical knowledge, most of the work isn't too bad. A nice floor jack makes doing the rear springs far, far easier. The hardest part about the bushings is getting the old ones out (I used a propane torch and a nice big fire pit at my brothers house and burned the old ones out). Other than that, having the assistance (willing, if possible) of a friend is usually helpful, just for those parts when you think, "gee, it'd be helpful to have three hands right about now..."

You'll likely want to simply remove the front struts, then take them to a shop and have the new struts put on along w/the new springs ... that is, unless you have a spring compressor on hand. If you want to tackle that part on your own, many of the auto parts stores (like AutoZone etc) will 'rent' you tools (you usually just have to leave a deposit then, when you return the tool, you get the money back) and a strut spring compressor is something they usually have. Just be absolutely certain the tension from the spring is no longer on the spring perches on the strut when you take that top nut off ... otherwise you may end up with some metal bits in you cranium that clearly don't belong there.

Perhaps the best way for you to begin this project would be to go out and purchase a Haynes manual, that way you can see what is involved for each thing before you start.