brownmound

Mound won't start...tested plugs, wires, tested AFM and fuel flow seemed fine...last night i took off the Upper intake to get a look at the injectors, suspecting fuel flow since I wasn't smelling gas after all that starting.

I haven't tested the injectors for fuel flow, but what I noticed was odd....there was fuel spill on the top of the engine block and rats nest....it seems that fuel is getting through the vaccum line on the pressure regulator and going through the rats nest through the pressure regulator solenoid. WTF? Is this an indication of a bad fuel pressure regulator?

Can I test the injectors by flipping the AFM flap...I suspect that they won't flow properly.....

So now I think I need a pressure regulator and it's solenoid brother. I don't know why it would have failed...I cleaned the fuel rail off but never undid the regulator.

Right on.

brownmound

Bumptheway, does anyone have a good fuel pressure regulator and solenoid to sell me?

Right on.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

if theres gas in the pressure regulator valve vacuum line its bad. the other symptoms are the car not wanting to start and running badly. its a fuel part you always buy new lest it become the charcoal mound

mike

brownmound

So it's definitely a symptom of a bad pressure regulator? Seems to me like it has to be....I don't want to Charcoal Brown Mound that's for sure man!

Thanks and Right on!

FJ

If, indeed, the fuel is coming from the vacuum line on the regulator then the only option is to replace it, preferably with new as j9fd3s said.
Did you disconnect the vacuum line and run the pump to be sure that the fuel is coming from the line and not a squirt from a badly sealing hose? As to why it failed since you had removed it from the engine, did you use a solvent to clean the fuel rail that was allowed to get into the hard line at the regulator? The diaphragm obviously stands up to gas, but not necessarily other solvents. If not, then "why now" is a question... I haven't heard of regulators being a problem.
They won't flow at all. Opening the AFM flap is equivalent to jumping the fuel pump test connector: they both ground the same wire, operating the fuel pump but not the injectors. Fuel will flow through the rail, but not the injectors.
Only the ECU will activate the injectors, with everything hooked up and trying to start. The only way would be to apply 12V to each injector, but you DO NOT want to do that while they are on the car as it will cause a spark.
If the injectors are in question, remove them and apply 12V, well away from the fuel, and spray intake cleaner through them. You won't get a proper spray pattern, but it will spray. (That's how I clean mine, followed by compressed air.) Don't leave the voltage applied too long (only a second at a time): they are not designed for "constant on" and will heat up and burn the coils within. Plus, they are normally cooled by the fuel flow.
At any rate, if the fuel is coming from the vacuum hose, the regulator has to be replaced.

I guess I'm not psychic after all, having said in Part I :"It will run " after the push start...

-John.

brownmound

FJ, your help is incredulous man.....I read a bunch of old threads you posted on simlar topics and you know this SE in and out...thanks so much.

Definitely fuel is flowing through that vacuum hose. I didn't do any further investigating/testing after that initial discovery. But I noticed fuel on the metal runners of the rats nest, and fuel pooled on the engine block. My first thought was fuel mist from when I cranked it with no plugs. But that would be a lot of fuel.

Fuel is going through the hose and into the solenoid that operates the pressure regulator...I know because I removed the line on the opposite side of the solenoid and fuel was in it. So I probably need a new/used solenoid too. I am going to call on the new regulator tomorrow.

As for why it failed during my engine cleaning...I'm stumped...I removed the fuel rail in one piece, and leaving well enough alone never unscrewed the regulator. I didn't use any solvents on it that could have gotten in. I think I just used a dremel brush to clean the fuel rail.

To double check, I am going to remove the fuel lines and jump the pump to MAKE SURE that the fuel is flowing the right direction.

The injectors shoould be fine, since I recently had them tested and cleaned. He said they flowed great, and they didn't seem to leak last night.

I was initally suspecting fuel, since like I said in part I that didn't really smell the usual heavy fuel smell after several attempts at cranking. I did get some mist, but not a whole lot. The plugs were wet, but not soaked. Last night I used new plugs, and two on the rear rotor were almost fully dry and new looking after several repeated efforts to get her going.

I never did try push starting with a car. I did get excited when you said, "It will start."

Only difficulty now is that I am moving in a week and will no longer have the garage, but I can work that out.

What can I look for in the regulator itself to verify that it has failed??

Thanks so much.

Right on!

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

basically gas in the vacuum line is the best symptom, the first symptom is the car running wierd, and then really bad and then not at all

mike

FJ

{Blushes} Thanks! Glad I could be of some help.

I don't know why, all of a sudden. Regarding the possible hooked-up-backwards issue: normally, the pump puts out up to 70 psi and the regulator releases enough flow to drop it to 28.
Even if the lines were hooked up backwards, the 70 should not get applied to the regulator, the flow would be right back through the return line with little resistance, causing no damage to the regulator. With no solvents involved, I don't know why it failed now, but with fuel in the vacuum line there's no question it has. Sounds like a severe case of bad luck/timing.

Only the rear were dry? Were the injector's sent out or cleaned by a local shop? While you have the intake off, it might be worth the time it takes to check that injector. Although I know mine will start on one rotor, yours may not because of the previous flooding.


HaHa: Sorry about that ; guess I won't start that "hot line" after all...


I've never had a regulator apart; normally, a fuel pressure gauge connected to the high pressure line would tell you. But if you have fuel in the vacuum line from the regulator I suspect, as j9fd3s mentioned, that test is redundant.

-John.

P.S.: I imagine the "color coded" vacuum diagram came in handy during all of your work. (I noticed you posted a cropped section of it lately.) I know my printed copy came in very handy recently... If you would like the larger copy (about 700K), send a PM and I'll e-mail it to you. Once the 12A version is verified, both of the larger versions ought to be available at http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/