Making my SA a real Honda Killer?
06-07-04, 05:00 AM
#1
dude, where's my torque?
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Making my SA a real Honda Killer?
Sorry, but this has a lot of questions, i'm kind of selfish as far as this forum goes, probably because I don't know much about modifying engines. So, here we go.
(Clears Throat)
Hey, i'm the guy with the '80 GS (pics here) that got owned by a 626 on the highway last week. I go to UW in Seattle and will be home for the summer to work and put money into my RX-7 and autox at Bremerton. As far as I know the engine is completely stock. My dad bought me a t-shirt on eBay that has a picture of an FB that says "HONDA KILLER" on it, and it got me to thinking...
Is the SA22C really a Honda Killer?
My opinion at the moment is, "No. Any Accord out there can run away from your puny little 12A."
I mean, the thing only puts out 100 horse! When was that ever fast? If it was meant to be a sports car, why is it slower than a 626, meant to be a family car? Now I guess I need to make the engine a little quicker. I'm probably gonna be working minimum-wage, 40 hr weeks all summer, so I think i'll probably go with some kind of RB full exhaust package, which I think is around $500, right?
Now i'm no mechanic, but i've replaced my water pump and changed my oil and know a lot (subjective) from reading my haynes manual and rx7 forums. Do you guys think an 18 year old and his dad, if necessary (knows a lot about old truck/car engines, not so much about rotaries), could remove the emissions, A/C and air pump on the engine using the how-to on mazspeed? Would it make a difference? If I remove the clutch fan, is there an electric one out there that would fit my car?
I want to remove weight, too. All i've done as of yet is taken out the spare tire and jack, but I want the interior to remain as pretty as it is, since the PO restored it. So removing the passenger seat, cloth, CD player, and other interior niceties are out of the picture. I want to get the car down 200 lbs without ruining the look of the interior. Maybe I better hit the gym, I could stand to lose 10lbs and be 165 again. Any suggestions there?
The 12A has 133k on it, can someone give me the lowdown on the potential for a street port? I know the basics of porting a rotary, but what results does one find on a 12A? How much would this cost? Is my engine too old? Who makes a cheap upgrade for my questionable fuel pump?
What else can I do to my car to make it faster for less than $500? I want to do a lot of autocrossing this summer or go to a racing clinic to be a better/safer driver, but since the SA22C's weak point is its power, not its handling, I figure suspension and swapping out the rear end for the GSL can wait until i've got some power to work with.
What do you think about my situation? Will my 24-year old underdog ever be able to stand up to my buddy's 92 stock civic DX hatchback? What do I do? Something someone once commented really sticks in my mind: "Just tell them what I tell people that I lose to in a drag race-- 'I'd out handle you.' " Then this other guy comments and says "The thing is, you probably wouldn't." Was that a slam on the car's handling, or the driver's skill? Is handling measured in Gs?
People really overestimate my car's strength when they see it for the first time. Please, please please reply and tell me what you think, I really need some reassurance from people who know what to do. Thank you, I don't know what i'd do without you guys.
Joe
(Clears Throat)
Hey, i'm the guy with the '80 GS (pics here) that got owned by a 626 on the highway last week. I go to UW in Seattle and will be home for the summer to work and put money into my RX-7 and autox at Bremerton. As far as I know the engine is completely stock. My dad bought me a t-shirt on eBay that has a picture of an FB that says "HONDA KILLER" on it, and it got me to thinking...
Is the SA22C really a Honda Killer?
My opinion at the moment is, "No. Any Accord out there can run away from your puny little 12A."
I mean, the thing only puts out 100 horse! When was that ever fast? If it was meant to be a sports car, why is it slower than a 626, meant to be a family car? Now I guess I need to make the engine a little quicker. I'm probably gonna be working minimum-wage, 40 hr weeks all summer, so I think i'll probably go with some kind of RB full exhaust package, which I think is around $500, right?
Now i'm no mechanic, but i've replaced my water pump and changed my oil and know a lot (subjective) from reading my haynes manual and rx7 forums. Do you guys think an 18 year old and his dad, if necessary (knows a lot about old truck/car engines, not so much about rotaries), could remove the emissions, A/C and air pump on the engine using the how-to on mazspeed? Would it make a difference? If I remove the clutch fan, is there an electric one out there that would fit my car?
I want to remove weight, too. All i've done as of yet is taken out the spare tire and jack, but I want the interior to remain as pretty as it is, since the PO restored it. So removing the passenger seat, cloth, CD player, and other interior niceties are out of the picture. I want to get the car down 200 lbs without ruining the look of the interior. Maybe I better hit the gym, I could stand to lose 10lbs and be 165 again. Any suggestions there?
The 12A has 133k on it, can someone give me the lowdown on the potential for a street port? I know the basics of porting a rotary, but what results does one find on a 12A? How much would this cost? Is my engine too old? Who makes a cheap upgrade for my questionable fuel pump?
What else can I do to my car to make it faster for less than $500? I want to do a lot of autocrossing this summer or go to a racing clinic to be a better/safer driver, but since the SA22C's weak point is its power, not its handling, I figure suspension and swapping out the rear end for the GSL can wait until i've got some power to work with.
What do you think about my situation? Will my 24-year old underdog ever be able to stand up to my buddy's 92 stock civic DX hatchback? What do I do? Something someone once commented really sticks in my mind: "Just tell them what I tell people that I lose to in a drag race-- 'I'd out handle you.' " Then this other guy comments and says "The thing is, you probably wouldn't." Was that a slam on the car's handling, or the driver's skill? Is handling measured in Gs?
People really overestimate my car's strength when they see it for the first time. Please, please please reply and tell me what you think, I really need some reassurance from people who know what to do. Thank you, I don't know what i'd do without you guys.
Joe
06-07-04, 08:36 AM
#3
Blew my 3rd one 12/8/08
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civic dx hatchback.. i hope you out run him.. if not you got some probs with your car.. 
you need to get the exhaust opened up, this makes a world of difference. i run a header/straight pipe/ muffler, and wow..
my car is stockport/stock carb with air pump, rat's nest, AC removed, and with my exhaust i stay ahead of my buddy in a 2 door 91 accord, though only by about my front fender, he also having exhaust, intake, and some vacuum tweaks here and there..
you need to get the exhaust opened up, this makes a world of difference. i run a header/straight pipe/ muffler, and wow..
my car is stockport/stock carb with air pump, rat's nest, AC removed, and with my exhaust i stay ahead of my buddy in a 2 door 91 accord, though only by about my front fender, he also having exhaust, intake, and some vacuum tweaks here and there..
06-07-04, 08:40 AM
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alright.....I dont know too much about this, so I'm only going to answer a few Q's. As far as it being slow in it's stock form, your SA should be able to beat a civic DX(I would think). my 83 12a did, so maybe something isn't functioning to it's full potential. Worn clutch, spark, fuel pressure. Maybe your lanching/shifting just isn't that great yet.
You can remove the clutch fan and install an electric. some people are using fiero or taurus fans. or I hear the black magic fans work really well.
You can remove your emissions(rats nest), A/C, and air pump, and they'll give you a couple ponies, and save you 20 pounds maybe. nowhere near 200. removing the spare tire is good, maybe a light weight battery, you could replace all kinds of parts with with light-weight ones(carbon-fiber, aluminium, plastic). 200 lbs might be tough tho. Especially if your running an aftermarket sound system. Mine probably added nearly 100 lbs.
Handling, the stock rx-7's handling, has been hyped up a bit on this forum I find. My '84 SE is easily out handled by my Focus, and my buddies '90 mustang. I think with some new bushings, shocks, springs(lowering springs maybe) it would handle alot better. I hear removing the rear sway bar helps counter the tail happyness a little.
For mods under $500, I think a RB exhaust would be about that much. I live in canada, not sure what the american prices are. And an intake can be built for way less then that. New rubber will help the handling, more then you might think. New/rebuilt carb maybe. For $500 american, you could do alot of things. check out the 1st gen FAQ page...... https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=237777
You should be beating your buddies DX already, so look into a good tune up, check your vaccum hoses and sensors. The Rx-7 isn't underpowered, it just needs less power to accelerate quickly, due to it's light weight. so these cheap mods do make a difference.
Having just typed up about every improtant thing I learned about rx-7s in the last 2 years, I' want to let you know I've never even seen an SA and I'm not sure if this is all accurate. this is mostly based on my expearience with the SE.
Hope at least some of this helps.
Kyle
You can remove the clutch fan and install an electric. some people are using fiero or taurus fans. or I hear the black magic fans work really well.
You can remove your emissions(rats nest), A/C, and air pump, and they'll give you a couple ponies, and save you 20 pounds maybe. nowhere near 200. removing the spare tire is good, maybe a light weight battery, you could replace all kinds of parts with with light-weight ones(carbon-fiber, aluminium, plastic). 200 lbs might be tough tho. Especially if your running an aftermarket sound system. Mine probably added nearly 100 lbs.
Handling, the stock rx-7's handling, has been hyped up a bit on this forum I find. My '84 SE is easily out handled by my Focus, and my buddies '90 mustang. I think with some new bushings, shocks, springs(lowering springs maybe) it would handle alot better. I hear removing the rear sway bar helps counter the tail happyness a little.
For mods under $500, I think a RB exhaust would be about that much. I live in canada, not sure what the american prices are. And an intake can be built for way less then that. New rubber will help the handling, more then you might think. New/rebuilt carb maybe. For $500 american, you could do alot of things. check out the 1st gen FAQ page...... https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...hreadid=237777
You should be beating your buddies DX already, so look into a good tune up, check your vaccum hoses and sensors. The Rx-7 isn't underpowered, it just needs less power to accelerate quickly, due to it's light weight. so these cheap mods do make a difference.
Having just typed up about every improtant thing I learned about rx-7s in the last 2 years, I' want to let you know I've never even seen an SA and I'm not sure if this is all accurate. this is mostly based on my expearience with the SE.
Hope at least some of this helps.
Kyle
08-25-05, 02:05 PM
#6
Microtech Tuning!
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Jesus Padilla on one end of the spectrum killing Hondas 
On the other hand, EF and EG and EK Civics utilise modern and well-designed double wishbone suspenion all around, whereas 1st Gen Rx7's use a half-assed Watts link live axle in the rear and second tier Mcpherson strut-style suspension in the front. It will take less compromises and work for any of these Honda's to out-corner a 1st Gen. Although they will never have as much fun driving their cars as we do ours.
On the other hand, EF and EG and EK Civics utilise modern and well-designed double wishbone suspenion all around, whereas 1st Gen Rx7's use a half-assed Watts link live axle in the rear and second tier Mcpherson strut-style suspension in the front. It will take less compromises and work for any of these Honda's to out-corner a 1st Gen. Although they will never have as much fun driving their cars as we do ours.
08-25-05, 02:25 PM
#7
Bubble Gum's Good
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Take the top off the air cleaner, take off the butterfly nut, extend the bolt that comes out of the carb to the top of the filter. Fab a disk that fits over JUST the filter. Cuts out the restrictive snorkel. Thats a cheap (almost free) way to get more air flowing through the carb. I did it and it is a little quicker. **** you could do it in the dorms. just remember to spray some air freshener.
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08-25-05, 09:45 PM
#8
full exhaust ($200 at muffler shop with used header) + carb rebuild ($50 if you DIY + working secondaries on the carb (check the teeter-totter thinger, dunno what its called!) (free) + 2nd gen leading ignition mod (read the 20 minute install thread) ($50 TOPS) and it will feel like a whole new car!
and you aren't even at $500.
obviously, if the car hasn't had a tuneup recently, you should add to the list (FIRST even!)
new plugs, cap+rotor+points, wires.
oil change.
flush/refill the coolant!
as far as suspension goes... if the stock suspension is in good working order, and not worn out. and you want the car to handle, buy a set of Falken Azenis Sport summer tires (about $400 for all 4 in 13" installed, maybe even less)... and be AMAZED at the cornering prowess!
and you aren't even at $500.
obviously, if the car hasn't had a tuneup recently, you should add to the list (FIRST even!)
new plugs, cap+rotor+points, wires.
oil change.
flush/refill the coolant!
as far as suspension goes... if the stock suspension is in good working order, and not worn out. and you want the car to handle, buy a set of Falken Azenis Sport summer tires (about $400 for all 4 in 13" installed, maybe even less)... and be AMAZED at the cornering prowess!
08-26-05, 12:34 AM
#9
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
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yes, your car in stock form is slow as fuggin hell. accept it. ok? awesome. here we go. as said...
TUNEUP!!! (omfg this is so fuggin important!!!)
HEADER WITH FULL EXHAUST!!!!!!! (this is where almost all of your n/a power is going to be had)
MECHANICAL SECONDARIES (it's so GOT DAMN easy and makes a nice difference, plus more fun to drive)
ADVANCE YOUR TIMING A FEW DEGREES!!! (not many people mess with this, but it does make a difference)
IGNITION BOX!!!! MSD OR WHATEVER DAMNIT! (this coupled with timing tricks will be very noticable)
HOLY **** IF YOU DONT HAVE A GOOD CLUTCH GET ONE
thanks
TUNEUP!!! (omfg this is so fuggin important!!!)
HEADER WITH FULL EXHAUST!!!!!!! (this is where almost all of your n/a power is going to be had)
MECHANICAL SECONDARIES (it's so GOT DAMN easy and makes a nice difference, plus more fun to drive)
ADVANCE YOUR TIMING A FEW DEGREES!!! (not many people mess with this, but it does make a difference)
IGNITION BOX!!!! MSD OR WHATEVER DAMNIT! (this coupled with timing tricks will be very noticable)
HOLY **** IF YOU DONT HAVE A GOOD CLUTCH GET ONE
thanks
08-26-05, 02:09 AM
#10
Too old to act my age
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I guess no one bothered to notice the fact that this thread was started, and died off, a few months back.
Even though all the info is accurate, it's a little late to help the person that started the thread. Afterall, they were asking about projects to do during the summer break, and most schools have started back up by now.
Even though all the info is accurate, it's a little late to help the person that started the thread. Afterall, they were asking about projects to do during the summer break, and most schools have started back up by now.
08-26-05, 02:18 AM
#11
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Originally Posted by Forgie
Fact of the matter is, the SA RX-7 is just a way cooler car then the civic DX Hatchback. Faster or not. Deep down he wishes he was driving an RX-7.
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