MAF mod
08-09-01, 05:19 PM
#26
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POS, you raise another good point. I don't yet know how far I can take this before I start to see a decline. So far this is all on paper. It will take some actual trail and error work before I can answer some of these very ligitimite questions. That is also why I was recomending earlier that other breathing mod should be present to see the full potential of this. That's all for today folk. Work's over and I'm heading out. To be continued.
08-09-01, 05:44 PM
#27
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ok, back to sizzle the brain some more 
OK, when I put the 2nd Gen AFM in my car with the GSL-SE guts in it (long story)
I got its to work 2 diffrent ways
1 was good driveabilty, but ran way lean at full throttle (FT)
2 sucked at driveabilty, but ran like a grape ape at full throttle
so I belive if we go for the driveability, and they try to increase the fuel at FT via Fuel Pressure Riser
However, most of the FPR's I belive work on Turbo's ect
where pressure (boost) can be measured
In our cars it will be all Vacuum so we will need a way
to flip the signal.
I belive that with further testing of the Modified 2nd gen AFM
working on the fuel issues at FT it should work.
however I don't want to risk toasting my motor running to lean
trying to find out. And the garage doesn't have A/C so it sux working on it in this heat, heheh
Also when you go to the 2nd Gen, you get a larger Throttle Body.
I've been tinkering with making an adapter to bolt on the 2nd Gen upper intake to the GSL-SE's lower intake, thus enlarging the Throttle Body area
When you get past on restriction, you gain another
where will it ever stop? hehe
OK, when I put the 2nd Gen AFM in my car with the GSL-SE guts in it (long story)
I got its to work 2 diffrent ways
1 was good driveabilty, but ran way lean at full throttle (FT)
2 sucked at driveabilty, but ran like a grape ape at full throttle
so I belive if we go for the driveability, and they try to increase the fuel at FT via Fuel Pressure Riser
However, most of the FPR's I belive work on Turbo's ect
where pressure (boost) can be measured
In our cars it will be all Vacuum so we will need a way
to flip the signal.
I belive that with further testing of the Modified 2nd gen AFM
working on the fuel issues at FT it should work.
however I don't want to risk toasting my motor running to lean
trying to find out. And the garage doesn't have A/C so it sux working on it in this heat, heheh
Also when you go to the 2nd Gen, you get a larger Throttle Body.
I've been tinkering with making an adapter to bolt on the 2nd Gen upper intake to the GSL-SE's lower intake, thus enlarging the Throttle Body area
When you get past on restriction, you gain another
where will it ever stop? hehe
08-10-01, 12:32 AM
#28
8krpm is not enough
Max7:
along those lines (of the upper intake manifold on a -SE), I've been thinking of port-matching the lower manifold to the -SE block. It looks ALOT easier than trying to mate the upper manifold to the lower one. It might be something a little JBWELD and a diegrinder could do in a few hours. That'd also give ya an extra fuel rail if you ever need it for anything.
Of course, then I got the idea of swapping in a turbo II motor and gave up the thought of manifold swapping for now
--matt
along those lines (of the upper intake manifold on a -SE), I've been thinking of port-matching the lower manifold to the -SE block. It looks ALOT easier than trying to mate the upper manifold to the lower one. It might be something a little JBWELD and a diegrinder could do in a few hours. That'd also give ya an extra fuel rail if you ever need it for anything.
Of course, then I got the idea of swapping in a turbo II motor and gave up the thought of manifold swapping for now
--matt
08-10-01, 11:11 AM
#29
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I to have kinda gave up on the idea, and aim towards a T2 motor
but for others I did take some pix of the GSL-SE gasket on the 86-88 lower manifold, not to much work. http://max7.rx-7.org/mods/mod-intake.htm
the reason I wanted to make an adapter block was since most people don't want to remove thier manifold, JB Weld, grind and such, a simple adapter, and it would bolt on. I talked to a Machinest about it, and it can be done. and then just make copies of it, also it would allow you to plump the adapter for NOS so you won't have to mess with the intake runners. Should you chose to run NOS
so many choices, never enough time.
but for others I did take some pix of the GSL-SE gasket on the 86-88 lower manifold, not to much work. http://max7.rx-7.org/mods/mod-intake.htm
the reason I wanted to make an adapter block was since most people don't want to remove thier manifold, JB Weld, grind and such, a simple adapter, and it would bolt on. I talked to a Machinest about it, and it can be done. and then just make copies of it, also it would allow you to plump the adapter for NOS so you won't have to mess with the intake runners. Should you chose to run NOS
so many choices, never enough time.
Originally posted by speckamp
Max7:
along those lines (of the upper intake manifold on a -SE), I've been thinking of port-matching the lower manifold to the -SE block. It looks ALOT easier than trying to mate the upper manifold to the lower one. It might be something a little JBWELD and a diegrinder could do in a few hours. That'd also give ya an extra fuel rail if you ever need it for anything.
Of course, then I got the idea of swapping in a turbo II motor and gave up the thought of manifold swapping for now
--matt
Max7:
along those lines (of the upper intake manifold on a -SE), I've been thinking of port-matching the lower manifold to the -SE block. It looks ALOT easier than trying to mate the upper manifold to the lower one. It might be something a little JBWELD and a diegrinder could do in a few hours. That'd also give ya an extra fuel rail if you ever need it for anything.
Of course, then I got the idea of swapping in a turbo II motor and gave up the thought of manifold swapping for now
--matt
08-10-01, 12:57 PM
#30
8krpm is not enough
I did some reading in the Haynes manual about the AFM. While this has never been a true wealth of information, it did show some intresting things. There's not only the variable resistor connected to the "barn door", but there's a momentary switch and a intake air sensor.
The momentary switch activates in what seems to be the AFM's equiv. of WOT. When the "barn door" goes all the way open, the switch closes, and I'm assuming at that point the ECU goes into it's "pre-programmed mode".
So, knowing that, it stands to reason, that you might be able to get a custom chip burned to enrichen the fuel map at WOT / WOAFM (wide open air flow meter? ) to accomidate for the added flow, or you could just never use that signal w/ the MAF and just let the ECU rely on the O2 sensor for mixture. Seems kinda sloppy to me, but might just be crazy enough to work.
Also... any idea what the TII uses? Would that be adaptable to this situation?
more of my .02,
--matt
The momentary switch activates in what seems to be the AFM's equiv. of WOT. When the "barn door" goes all the way open, the switch closes, and I'm assuming at that point the ECU goes into it's "pre-programmed mode".
So, knowing that, it stands to reason, that you might be able to get a custom chip burned to enrichen the fuel map at WOT / WOAFM (wide open air flow meter? ) to accomidate for the added flow, or you could just never use that signal w/ the MAF and just let the ECU rely on the O2 sensor for mixture. Seems kinda sloppy to me, but might just be crazy enough to work.
Also... any idea what the TII uses? Would that be adaptable to this situation?
more of my .02,
--matt
08-10-01, 01:25 PM
#31
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you have good .02 cents Matt. What I have been thinking is that I should put in a call to Wolf ems and see what they're thoughts on this are. It's possible, though unlikely, that I won't have to make that black box at all if they can burn a custom chip that will accept the new sig. Because I am planning to try that 2nd gen manifold swap max 7 was talking about and adding a larger fuel pump w/ adjustable reg. I would tell them all this at Wolf and they could program the chip accordingly. Man I wish I had the software for that. I have an eprom burner sitting right next to me right now. If I knew how to write code I would do it myself!
08-10-01, 03:25 PM
#32
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Getting a new Chip will be VERY hard
first, there has never been one
someone will need to rip the code off the stock one
decode it (figure out what values control what)
figure out how to modifiy it
make the stock ECU accept and new EPROM
Even for Very Advanced users, this will be alot of work
I've watched the 2nd Gen's on thier battle to get a new ECU.
It's not easy, some companies only mod certain parts
and still they are next to impossible to get.
and Even when you find one, $400-$500 for one, OUCH!
It would almost be cheaper to use the 2nd gen intake
use the 2nd set of injectors, get an Aditional injector controller and use it to add more fuel based on RPM.
are we having fun yet? hehe
first, there has never been one
someone will need to rip the code off the stock one
decode it (figure out what values control what)
figure out how to modifiy it
make the stock ECU accept and new EPROM
Even for Very Advanced users, this will be alot of work
I've watched the 2nd Gen's on thier battle to get a new ECU.
It's not easy, some companies only mod certain parts
and still they are next to impossible to get.
and Even when you find one, $400-$500 for one, OUCH!
It would almost be cheaper to use the 2nd gen intake
use the 2nd set of injectors, get an Aditional injector controller and use it to add more fuel based on RPM.
are we having fun yet? hehe
08-10-01, 11:50 PM
#33
8krpm is not enough
Max: and it'd be easier to spend the extra 400$ over an AIC on a wolf3d and just go stanged injectors, w/ a MAP
I've read the ~85 page Wolf EMS manual and it looks like a really cool system, it's even got provisions for direct fire using 2nd GEN coil packs. Much coolness. It even has trailing ignition maps!
Of course, if I could afford that, I'd have gotten this damn body work done AGES ago.
--matt
I've read the ~85 page Wolf EMS manual and it looks like a really cool system, it's even got provisions for direct fire using 2nd GEN coil packs. Much coolness. It even has trailing ignition maps!
Of course, if I could afford that, I'd have gotten this damn body work done AGES ago.
--matt
08-11-01, 12:13 AM
#34
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exactly best bet all around. But not a bolt on, completely rewire the engine. but no more AFM!
Aftermarket ECU and T2 motor, best of both worlds
then its ready for the T04
then we can start breaking stuff, hehe
best bet all around. But not a bolt on, completely rewire the engine. but no more AFM!Aftermarket ECU and T2 motor, best of both worlds
then its ready for the T04
then we can start breaking stuff, hehe
Originally posted by speckamp
Max: and it'd be easier to spend the extra 400$ over an AIC on a wolf3d and just go stanged injectors, w/ a MAP
--matt
Max: and it'd be easier to spend the extra 400$ over an AIC on a wolf3d and just go stanged injectors, w/ a MAP
--matt
08-11-01, 01:16 AM
#35
8krpm is not enough
yup!
like rear ends and trannys.
now if only I can find that $3000 I had lying around in my portable pouch of holding... hope it didn't go into the portable hole.........
(hm, major RPG geek reference there :p)
but no one answered me! does anyone know what the TII uses? I'm hoping mazda didn't keep the barndoor AFM!
like rear ends and trannys.
now if only I can find that $3000 I had lying around in my portable pouch of holding... hope it didn't go into the portable hole.........
(hm, major RPG geek reference there :p)
but no one answered me! does anyone know what the TII uses? I'm hoping mazda didn't keep the barndoor AFM!
08-11-01, 12:59 PM
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exactly best bet all around. But not a bolt on, completely rewire the engine. but no more AFM!
Aftermarket ECU and T2 motor, best of both worlds
then its ready for the T04
then we can start breaking stuff, hehe
Aftermarket ECU and T2 motor, best of both worlds
then its ready for the T04
then we can start breaking stuff, hehe
have you guys ever thought of plumbing a turbo onto your gsl-se's?? the turbo will bolt right on but you have to match port a t2 intake on there... just an idea for you guys
08-11-01, 10:06 PM
#38
8krpm is not enough
thought about putting a turbo on the -SE block, really wanted to do it for a while too, cuz I'd bet it would be have a little more torque cuz of the higher comp. rotors, but you'ld have to run a little less boost.
I've talked to a few people who've done this and they said putting in a turbo II motor would have been less of a hassle.
--matt
I've talked to a few people who've done this and they said putting in a turbo II motor would have been less of a hassle.
--matt
08-12-01, 01:56 PM
#39
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have you guys ever thought of plumbing a turbo onto your gsl-se's?? the turbo will bolt right on but you have to match port a t2 intake on there... just an idea for you guys
But image how long the engine would last The 2nd tII gen guys are rebuilding theirs often enuf,now imagine a turbo on a higher compression engine, but then again we have 3mm apes seals
08-12-01, 02:45 PM
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But image how long the engine would last The 2nd tII gen guys are rebuilding theirs often enuf,now imagine a turbo on a higher compression engine, but then again we have 3mm apes seals
08-12-01, 02:46 PM
#41
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Hey whats up guys. Can't you just change the value of the rheostat and upgrade the fuel injectors? then change out different values of rheostats until you have it tuned fairly well? Maybe add a second afm for added airflow so It can be tuned easier.
11-04-01, 08:26 PM
#43
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Renewed interest....
check it out. i posted a Question about this conversion in the 2nd gen forum, cuz im an FC guy.
it seems like alot of u guys wanna get ur hands on our FC parts, while us FC guys wanna get our hands on some FD parts...weird eh?
anywho, about the WOT/WOAFM thing. the AFM reads air flow changes up till WOT, and if it flows anymore air AFTER its wide open, then its getting by unmeasured right? no, not really. the computer uses the AFM, and pressure sensor in conjunction, to accuratly measure the volume of air entering the engine.
i wanna put a Ford MAF on my 88 SE. its an NA, but i wanna get rid of the barn door. i think all my mods could do a little better if i had the Mustang MAF. lets finish this thing up, and start puttin them on our cars.
chris
it seems like alot of u guys wanna get ur hands on our FC parts, while us FC guys wanna get our hands on some FD parts...weird eh?
anywho, about the WOT/WOAFM thing. the AFM reads air flow changes up till WOT, and if it flows anymore air AFTER its wide open, then its getting by unmeasured right? no, not really. the computer uses the AFM, and pressure sensor in conjunction, to accuratly measure the volume of air entering the engine.
i wanna put a Ford MAF on my 88 SE. its an NA, but i wanna get rid of the barn door. i think all my mods could do a little better if i had the Mustang MAF. lets finish this thing up, and start puttin them on our cars.
chris
11-04-01, 08:43 PM
#44
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Carbuerated, no computers, and no forced induction = my car + a lot fewer problems with upgrades..... Although fuel injection does = more HP
Just my 2 bits....
Although fuel injection does = more HP Just my 2 bits....
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