randomblame

Hello everyone this is my first post. My adventure with rotary engines began yesterday when I bought an 85 rx for the girlfriend. I checked it out thouroughly there was no water in the oil or vice versa it ran ok but seemed a bit gutless anyways the price was right so we took it home 30 miles to kelso. This morning there is lots of water in the oil and lots of oil in the water - of course I know I got screwed somebody flushed it and filled it with clean stuff before I came to check it out.

This has no head and therefore no head gasket but I assume some other seal is broken. How screwed am I? What do I need to do to replace it? My other project is a 78 280z and I can replace anything with a blindfold on but rotarys are new to me. I could use a push in the right direction are there any good books on the subject?

another possible problem is the clutch and the brake pedal feel very strange compared to my Z car they're very soft though still very functional, I may have to bleed them today are there any other problems I should be looking for that are common with these things?

teddyrx2

iTrader: (33)

okay so we got water in the oil...and oil in the water...not good...water seals that sandwhich the motor together are going and that is where you are getting your water in the oil and oil in the water...

Things to look for...crazy smoke upon start up...loss of oil every time you drive...loss of water or over heating when you drive...

Sorry to say but the best thing to do is rebuild or buy another motor...

sucks you got taken on the deal

AsianImage

yeah this is a sad story...and you are not going to like what you are going to hear.

But...you should of done your homework. You should of came on here read read read and then read some more...or taken a person that knows rotarys a little more than you. With the internet, it is sooo easy to research cars. There are forums for every single niche car you can think of. Each car has its very specific things to look out for. Rotary engines are such different animals...I guess you are realizing that now.

It sucks that you got sold a engine that is basically gone. If anything it is a lesson learned. I hope you did not waste too much money and can get a used or rebuilt motor for not too much.

One tip...I can share is whenever I buy a used car...I ALWAYS tell the owner, if possible can I see the car at a COLD START? Usually it is ok...and I work it out that way. When I bought my SE I went to the guys home around 830PM and I got to start the car COLD...so I can see any smoke or stutter or anything else. Then I drove it from cold...to warm.

Good luck with it...

teddyrx2

iTrader: (33)

But you know what on the plus side you bought a 85 which means you go the fuel injected gsl-se model that was only made in 1984 and 1985...Good find...how much did you buy the car for?

Either way thats a really good find, with a nice 13b once you get the motor pulled and rebuilt while it's still early in the game...keep us posted bro...

justint5387

iTrader: (1)

umm... the S, GS, GSL had 12A for 84 and 85

MattG

iTrader: (2)

How did you pay for that car? Cash, Check?

If you paid check, I would call the bank and see if its to late to put a hold on it.

You need to go back to this shady guy(cant call him a man) and tell him that you know what he did.

Reading your thread makes me sick. I dont see how people can do that to other people.

PercentSevenC

Yeah, I'm afraid that motor is done for.

I know I was disturbed at how light the clutch pedal was on my FB after I'd been driving my '78 GLC for a while. It has a Racing Beat street/strip pressure plate now, which made it feel much better.

As for the brakes, do you have rear discs or drums? How much travel is there before it starts to grab? It could just be that the S30 had less power-assist or something.

randomblame

alrighty so I've pretty much disected the thing I think I understand fully everything about it now, Yeah I got suckered but thats fine I'll fix her. Honestly I'm pretty pissed because I passed up 3 other cars before this because they all had bad head gaskets haha now I have the rotary equivalent.. anyhow heres what I've found.

Brakes - There is quite a bit of travel before any grip which makes me believe that either the front or rear isn't working, perhaps new shoes and a good bleed through are in order. Also percent7c the rear brakes are drums I'll prolly have to swap um for discs one of these days but the engine problems need attention first.

Clutch - after seeing the position of the slave cylinder I am no longer confused by how light the pedal feels and I'm pretty damn happy about it.

Engine - This is an 85 but it's not the super special fuel injected B version we've got a 12A series III

Water oil problem - So it seems pretty damned easy to rip this thing apart and replace the seals which is what I am going to have to do.. so I'm gonna need lots of advice on this as it's my first rotary tear down. What should I replace while I've got it apart? Bearings etc.? I need a shopping list :P Do the rotors only go in one way? Is it pretty much self explanatory or is there any specific advise I need to hear? Can I just pull it apart in segments while it's in the engine bay or do I need to pull it out?

I NEED this thing running right and soon so any help at all is greatly apreciated thanks for your support this is a very helpful forum so far.

PercentSevenC

The engine has to be pulled for the rebuild. If you want to do it yourself, grab a rebuild DVD (Atkins Rotary sells them, among others). There are a lot of rebuild threads here and on nopistons.com that will help you out. Since the motor will be apart and you don't have to worry about emissions in Kelso, you may want to grab some templates and get porting while you're at it.

'84-12A-GSL

You think ALL 1984 and 1985 cars have the 13B? If so You're wrong, only the GSL-SE got the 13B.

teddyrx2

iTrader: (33)

RELAX...i caught the mistake after the fact and couldn't edit my post ...**** man... i know they made 12a's in 84 and 85...

life goes on...suck it up...

randomblame

Yeah I was lookin at that rebuild kit on atkins their Kit A for 265 looks reasonable if I really need all those seals. I'd rather just replace the bare minimum and save some cash. I have a friend who is a rotory aficienado who said I didn't need to pull it and I could do it in the bay which would save me time and money and thats what it's all about time and money. I'll save the porting and super good fun for later right now I just need it to be dependable for as cheap as possible.


http://www.atkinsrotary.com/store/pr...cat=590&page=1

Thats their kit A will that do or could I get away with anything cheaper?

'84-12A-GSL

Well thats a weird mistake. And no need to relax, I wasn't worked up in the first place.

Obviously life goes on, you made a mistake on the internet, and we corrected you. It's not like you making a mistake would bring my life to a halt, and there's nothing to suck up.

You sound like you're the one getting worked up and defensive.
Did you expect no one to say anything at all?

Vashner

1. Drain and Fill again after inspecting for leaks. Don't trust old fluids. Besides the first thing you should always do with a used car that old is drain every single fluid and put grease on all the lube points.

Don't write off an engine that quick. I have left the radiator cap on but not turned the last bit of the way and water will spray all over the place mixing with oil etc.

2. Clutch. Stock RX7 is a light ez clutch. The performance clutches are harder. You might be used to something hard. If it shifts smooth then it's ok. Could just be worn down.

yetterben

i am a firm beliver if yah got it all apart might as well do it right and change everything out. Atleast thats the way i see it.

Mike0071

How much did you pay for the car? Gosh, it sucks that your motor's in that condition. Sounds like a rebuild to me. It shouldn't cost you much, no more than 1000, or you could even go with a 13B FI for 1500.

randomblame

paid a grand cash for it so it was a pretty good deal. I'm about to drain the fluid and flush it out I'm actually thinking the water in the oil could be condensation but the oil in the water is frightening. I just bought a manual for it and I've got cash in the bank if I gotta order that kit but it just doesnt sound like it's running rough it's smooth and quiet and theres no white smoke out the exhaust. hopefully all is well and I've just got old fluids.

Oh a question about the steering, I could have sworn it was power steering it felt so soft and easy but I guess it's not. It pulls slightly to the right probably an under inflated tire but the steering has slack in it. It's very annoying on the freeway.. I was thinking bad tie rod ends but I'd like a second opinon are there any other joints in the steering rack that are prone to failure?

boyee

iTrader: (3)

welcome to the forums. hope your new project will go smoothly.

the play in the steering is normal. should have about 1/4" of play. it is called the infamous Wonder Steer. there are steering kits available from ReSpeed. several other members have improved their steering by modifying the steering box a little (or something along that like) just do a search and you will find threads to fix this if it annoys you that much

PercentSevenC

We don't have a steering rack, unfortunately. We're stuck with old-school recirculating ball steering unless you want to send Billy at ReSpeed a grand for his reportedly excellent rack-and-pinion conversion. (It's on my wishlist.) Otherwise, if yours isn't within spec, try tightening it.

Mazdatrix has most of the rebuild parts a little cheaper than Atkins, except for oil control rings and apex seals. You'll need a gasket set at the very least. Check the condition of the other parts to see what else needs replacing.

randomblame

haha the steering is just lovely it makes passing semis on the freeway interesting at least.. :P It looks fine though physically I may have to one day get that rack n pinion kit if I keep this thing I'm becoming annoyed at this engine..

update on engine problems:
I changed out the oil, it was a full synthetic the previous owner was a moron as is usually the case. The synth is likely the cause of the oil going into the coolant however I'm getting quite a bit of condensation at the oil fill cap still this morning it had no condensation up there no sign of water but after starting it and letting it warm up for a while there was quite a bit. It makes me nervous as hell I really really don't wanna pull this thing apart I just want a runner. When I drained the oil it was free of water it looked pretty clean but it was obviously synthetic what kind of idiot puts synthetic oil in a 20 year old car? I flushed the coolant system as well as I could with a hose but theres still oil in there, it would be nice to have a completely clean system to know if I still have oil coming in there - that way I'd know for sure wether or not the seals are bad.

5hundo

Synthetic oil?

Ooooooo, not good!

Even if you do have to rebuild the engine, it's not that bad once you get all the parts you need. Keep us posted...

Also, don't neglect your tranny and diff!!! Those are the two most overlooked areas of auto maintainence. You can use synthetic in those, if you like but just make sure to get some new oil in there. Who knows how long the previous stuff has been in...

djessence

why has no one said the obvious

firstly welcome to the forum and the darkside, seriously sucks that you got taken, but life goes on. Whats the mileage on your car?

http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/rx7/manuals.html is the link for the FSM and carb manuals, make sure you get the one for your year

You may wanna check that your OMP is operating and not leaking. Alot of them leak (its on the passenger side under the water pump, has 2 lines running to the carb and it injects oil into the carb or somewhere to lubricate the rotors)

yetterben

just keep flushing dude. Never done this on a rotary but on boingers i will let the car come up to temp pop the lower hose and stick a garden hose in the upper and just let it run till it comes out clear. Keeping a carefull eye on the temp of the car mind you!!!! like i said never did it with a rotary but lots of other cars. After about a hour its comes out clean!

Hades12

The most simple check for "bad head gasket" is pull the Rad cap and warm it up. Bubbles = bad.

Vashner

OMG Still missing the point here. He looked at fluids in a 20+ year old car. Then get's it home and the fluids look bad? Do you see my point?

Drain and fill and check with new fluids geeze. You trust fluids that have been in there god knows how many years and with what kind of abuse?

Your getting WAY WAY ahead of yourself. Without the new fluids you have no scientific basis for an assumption because you have no test control.