I was wondering if welding a 3" - 4" wide piece of c chanel steel between the frames would be a good way to install a rack & pinion ? I suppose that you could put plates on the ends and drill holes through the frame rails to make it removable. This might even add some ridigity to the frame.

I know CP has been working on a kit but I am losing faith that it will come to market. Any thoughts ?

Chris

 

I think if anything just follow the outline of J Oliver's idea. I believe it will be a great kit, IF it comes to market. If nothing happens by my next fiscal year for the Rx-7 I'm going to go ahead and figure it out for myself too. The great thing about JO's kit was the "bolt in" factor of it.

 

yeah, i am also getting tired of nothing happening on this.. J Oliver, any chance of someone else getting the rights to produce it? Want to talk about it?


-Zach

 

Too late its done, registered and will be 4sale WAY before anyone figures out how the hell to get all the steering geometry right. It can only be done one way and one way only. Trust me...I have hundreds of hours and quite possibly thousands of dollars invested to get it the way it needs to be. To top it all off it is not even a big money making product, I just simply wanted to do somthing that I was told could not be done and to share this amazing system with fellow 1st gen lovers.
Dats it, Dats all.

 

Thanks JO

 

hey rotor vs. piston- whereabouts you live? I'm less than 2 hours to D.C...

 

Sounds good I wasn't trying to step on anyones toes, but i have not heard anything on this for quite a while. i thought it went stale..



Thanks for the work though!

 

There is alway more than one way to skin a cat. And it seems that if you do like you suggest and mount the rack in the same location as the crossbar then the most of the geometry issues go out the door, b/c you are mirroring the mazda geometry.....

 

There is only 1 way to do this CORRECT. Mounting the rack where I said is only 10% of the problems you would run into. If its so easy dont you think it would be done by now? Think about it...
I feel sick when I think about the early designs and how hard it is to get everyting right.

 

It could be just that easy... search through the archive for posts on subwoofer enclosures for in front of the taillights for a first gen.. lots have people have said they were gonna make them, but no one ever came through. I actually made a perfect mold for 'em but got sidetracked and just said screw it. I'm sure it's in the works, but there are some of us who have done things similar ot this before who would REALLY like one about now...

--Danny

 

There has been others in the past to convert 1st Gens to rack, Rod Millen comes to mind - but he, like you, didn't bring the kit to market for whatever reason - money, time, testing, liability, etc....

May I respectful submit the follow:

J Oliver - might I suggest you sell the "plans" for a nominal fee? It would give you the opportunity to recoup some of your investment, and prevent further investment in new designs, testing, possible liability issues, etc . - and from a member's selfish point of view - let us move on with a conversion!

I work daily with engineers. You're comments about something not being right, having a better way... I hear them everyday. But ultimately, someone within the company has to say, "It's good enough. Sell it." You can come out with a production version later, or whatever - but until then...

Don't underestimate this group of garage bandits and their ability to improve on something, if you give them something to start with...

 

Rod Millen had a AWD, with some crazy rack n pinion design that would cost some $10,000 to complete. Think about it, this kit is for the average owner to install in their driveway.
The kit is done, Im not sellin any rights and not to sound too proud but you will NOT be able to improve upon this product without the cost going through the roof. And to top it off I am a Mechanical Engineer so I too deal with excuses everyday.
When Im happy with it it will be on the market.
Thanx 4 your intrest though.

 

J if its done its done sell it already. you are losing buyers. your time to market has been exceeded and the buying group is losing it ablity to wait. first run sales may have been more than 100 you might be down to 25 or so and there is now alot of doubt in the fence sitters. if it is done sell it, put up pics, show it. I was not interested in the first design. I just did not like the way it looked. on paper it would function but it seamed the angles of seer would move to poor between 1/2 and 3/4 turn from the location of the unit. was this found true with testing? with the unit moved to the location of the mazda steering position, on paper that would have fixed that problem. is that why you made the change? you said the new design uses tube that should take care of another issue of weight of design for sales and shipping purposes, as well as we all want to keep our 7s as light as posable. I in theory I am intersted in your new design. your last statment does worry me that this may never come to market (being an engineer) everyone knows that engineers are never happy/ can always improve on a design. tell us what you are unhappy with about the current design. if it is ready tell us how much. by the way you could sell plans and not the rights. make sure you get a pat pen. if thats what the hold up is, tell us should be no more than 6-8 weeks at the most for what you need to protect your design.

 

It hasn't been done a lot in the past because it's not necessary for a great handling rex. RX-7s have been tearing up the tracks, setting records and being factored out of classes for a long time without this mod. That's the real reason why no one's bothered to market a kit.

 

 

I was emailing someone last night that races G Production MGA's and RX-7's, and he said essentially the same thing, " 99.9% of the time you can adjust the play out of the steering box. The idler and pitman arms might also be worn. You won't find a kit like what you're talking about and it is unneeded. Hope this helps."...

On another note: I've been involved in patent law for about 3 years now, and unless there's something novel about the design, or something beyond what is obvious, I doubt it's patentable. It takes more that just doing it, and besides - I think the rack & pinion on an RX has been done before...

And not commenting on J.Oliver directly, at all, but just throwing this out as a "auto business" discussion, intead of a nuts and bolts discussion:

This kit would never make a small fabricator any money. First, you could never sell a kit at a price, in a quanitity to offset any production costs involved. Second, the liability tied to such a product would be immense. Third, to reiterate, I think this kit would be rejected by a patent office - not to mention the cost of patenting something - so you couldn't protect your work, and subsequently, your profit.

Though I think I just convinced myself this product will never see the masses - I'm really just throwing the above out on the table for a friendly discussion.

 

A good product will sell itself regardless of when it comes out. If the impatient haters out there can't wait then more power to them. No one is stopping them from building their own. I'm willing to bet that most of these people will still end up buying one in the end anyways because they are too impatient to do their own research and development.

J Oliver: If no one else wants your system, who cares? You still have what YOU wanted for your car and thats all that matters. I'd still love to have one regardless of how long it takes. Everyone should be thankful that you even offered to make them for sale in the first place. Don't be stupid enough to sell plans for them. You'd sell one, maybe two sets of plans and then some low life would scan them and distribute them on his own totally bypassing you. This may happen to the final product anyways. Even if you copyright and patent the design, it still won't physically stop someone from making their own. It will stop them from selling it though. Just as with currency counterfitting, it isn't the single large amount counterfitters that do the most damage. It is the thousands of individuals that do it only once and get away with it that make the difference.

 

Just to clarify: I'm not looking to attack, and I'm not an "impatient hater". J. Oliver, nor anyone else needs to defend themselves, nor have someone come to his defense... He's a business man who's created some heat around a product, he's gauging interest, researching, etc... Whether this kit makes it to market, well, that's the $24K question. It certainly won't be the end of the world if it doesnt. And I, nor anyone else, will think any less of J. Oliver (like he cares) - and I hope that a cool rack kit actually does come to fruitioin...

A good product doesn't sell itself, and it certainly doesn't guarantee a profit. My original set of questions were simply based on curiousity. Frankly, it could be none of my business - but I think such a kit, priced reasonably, from such a small company, with such a small purchasing base - would not make money. It simply goes against a lot of what I learned in Business 101.

So I think it's a fair question, respectfully asked. I'm too old to be a "hater", and frankly, I don't give a **** enough about this particular subject to be one...

 

I wasn't attacking you.

A good product does sell itself. Good marketing sells a shitty product. That should be Rule #1 in Business 101. For a wonderful example look at anything manufactured by BOSE! The rotary engine is a good product and it does indeed sell itself. I own RX-7's solely for the rotary engine. I could give a crap what kind of car it is in or how well it performs. If a Mustang or Camaro (god forbid!) came with rotaries, I would probably own them too.

Anyone selling anything for a 20 year old car can't possibly be in it for the money. It isn't there. They are doing it solely to help out other enthusiasts who desire the same thing. He will never make enough money to cover his research and development time and effort and he obviously doesn't care. The only way to make a good profit is to develop a good product for a current car. This would have been profitable if it were available back in 1980. The car has gone this long without it so what's a few more days, or weeks, or even months for that matter? Just a nice product that will make a good handling car a little better in the end.