Northern 7

iTrader: (3)

I got the other one

1stgen_tn

My 2 cents on the subject...

Is it just me that prefers the carbbed 12A?

I had a FC and hated just about everything about it (owned a FB before that) Really didn't like the FI system. I thought the power steering took away the "race car" feeling too.

I agree the SE are rare and were the best FB 7s ever offered.

BUT.......... I'd take an SA (good condition) over the SE any day. This should be the rarest and most sout after 7 there is. This is the FIRST Rx-7 model and what started it all. Plus, the rust and age factor.... How many SAs are left out there????

I own a 83 GSL (non SE) and love it. But, if I could get a SA, I wouldn't pass up the chance to get it too. It should be worth SOMETHING as showroom stock. I bet the SA's Victoria British have put on their cover are worth more than any of our cars. A mint 79 model would be priceless in my book.

1stgen_tn

Example given:

The 1970 Datsun 240Z over ANY other Z out there. There is a very high demand for these. For good reason too if anyone has seen one.

Northern 7

iTrader: (3)

Yes - its just you
BTW, my SE did not come with Power Steering
and the '79's are very nice and they are rare but the thread is not on SE's -

1stgen_tn

OKAY, WELL I KNOW AT LEAST P/S WAS OFFERED ON THE 13B VERSIONS......

MY BAD ON POSTING ABOUT SA's WHEN THIS WAS REALLY ONLY ABOUT GSL-SE's.

(TUCKS TAIL BETWEEN LEGS AND WALKS HOME...)

nekky

Lol, don't worry about it. SAs are really nice too, but please be honest, have you ever driven an SE that's running right with a few mods? They pull just as hard as a 12A stockport with a weber or something of the sort, and they run nicer too. Don't get me wrong though, the stock EFI sucks, and I'll soon be replacing mine.

Zac

PS. Yeah Dale! Haha, I'll see you out there soon pal!

YapaKanichi

Please someone explain why the EFI sicks to them? I have mine carbed, bought it like that.

nekky

It's just not very efficient. Look at FCs: they use 4 injectors instead of two, and the DEI chamber is a lot less square, and also flows more. Then there's the issue of the ever-so-restrictive AFM that GSL-SEs use. While simpler, the GSL-SE stock EFI is also inferior, in my view. Although David Lane on the FB mailing list still uses it on his 300rwhp Cartech Turbo SE and it runs perfect.

Zac

PS. Ever wondered why by simply bolting on a semi-efficient fuel leak (my little term for a carburetor) to an otherwise stock SE, you gain a NOTICABLE amount of power? Crappy stock EFI, NOT because carbs are that much better lol.

kleinke

Stock EFI sucks. 300-400 hp is very common in rotaries these days, and many people get even more. Perhaps that's part of the reason why he isn't making more power.

1stgen_tn

Anyone got an idea how much more power a stockport (carbbed) 13B has compared to a stockport 12A?

Horsepower and Torque??

Northern 7

iTrader: (3)

Here's a good article comparing some serious aftermarket carbs vs FI on a 13B 6 port rotary. Although it has nothing to do with stock configurations, it does tell a interesting story on what can be done with a good EFI set up compared to a good carb set up. Note the points on 2 vs 4 injectors and how they came up with the most effeciant set up. Doesn't really have a lot to do with this thread but it is an interesting read

http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/carb_vs_fi.pdf

LongDuck

Well, I see quite a few people slamming Mazda's RE-EGI system on the 84/85 SE's and feel the need to defend my personal biases!

For one, I like the SE's EFI system. Here's why;

In it's day, the 84/85 13b SE motor (w/RE-EGI and DEI) was the top dog - it offered variable intake systems for better low and high rpm breathing, it had relatively good fuel economy at a time when performance cars were getting about 15-18 city, not much better highway. It offered 135hp stock, compared to the 12a carb 101hp. And,.. it offered 133lb/ft of torque for a 30% increase over the previously offered 12a.

Mazda delivered this through the development of an EFI system that is based on the Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection system used by Porsche, BMW, and many other car manufacturers who were trying to squeeze extra ounce of power out of existing vehicles. The Bosch system relied on an 'air-vane' mass-airflow sensor which, while restrictive to airflow, returned a signal to the ECU for mapping of air/fuel ratio. Later designs of the Bosche Jetronic systems used a 'hot-wire' type MAF sensor, which presents less restriction and develops more power.

The fuel injectors employed by Mazda were 2x680cc nominal flow, low impedence injectors. Since there are only 2, better fuel economy results, and reliability is increased. These 2 injectors are located very close to the rotors on the center housing, making for good atomization of fuel and efficient burning properties, and formed the basis for the 2nd Gen, 2-stage injection system.

What it comes down to is that the EFI system in the 84/85 SE was tops in it's day - yeah, EFI has come a long way since then, and you can get more power through swapping MAF sensors (not easy), swapping inlets and manifolds (not easy), or other means that have become commonplace in today's (20 year newer) automobiles.

For the fuel economy and performance that you get - I'm sticking with the Mazda RE-EGI, DEI, 2 injector system. It works, it's reliable, and both injectors lasted over 150k miles before performance dropped off or mileage was affected - what more could you ask for? JMTC

MicahMan

whats the differance between a gsl and a gsl-se?

nekky

SE's are "better". They have a bigger 13B with EFI, bigger brakes, wheels, better gear ratio, stronger LSD etc etc. They were the top of the line 1st gen you could buy in '84 and '85. GSLs had the carb'ed 12A, smaller brakes, etc. GSL was the best 12A car you could buy, and was availaible all the way from 79-85 to my knowledge.

Zac

tarheelquality

My first was an 83 GSL LE? I think. It had the moonroof, High end stereo,power everything and the coolest metallic green paint I have ever seen. Like a fool I sold it and have regretted it ever since. Last week for $525 I bought a 84 GSLSE and have to admit it is awesome!!! The power compared to my 83 is unbelieveable. Definitely a great difference and a great car. I still miss that 83 though.

nekky

The 83 wasn't a GSL-SE

Zac

1stgen_tn

No doubt if it was the green, champange color it was a LE model. I've been corrected by other club members that the model was just an 'LE' model. Not GSL-LE. Anyhow, I think the LE models are actually the rarest. Escpecially pre-1981.

Would love to drive a GSL-SE sometime just to see what all the hype is about. I have a GSL and love it. Had a 1987 'FC' Rx-7 and didn't much care for it at all. Even though it was 13B, EFI, PS, etc.

Brianhsval

He said it was an LE! Unless my eyes R going bad.

nekky

Not *really* such a thing as a GSL-LE either. It goes as follows:
S
GS
GSL (GX in Canada)
LE
GSL-SE

Not trying to be nitpicky, but ya know :P

Zac

BTW: My rare (!!!) GSL-SE is for sale. Has some mods. $5k CDN. The car is in Winnipeg, Manitoba. PM or email nekky7@shaw.ca for details! Thanks!

Ilesha

I have a completely original 79 LE, original window sticker and all! Anyone in the VA area know someone who can tell me if the engine is rebuildable? One guy told me sight unseen I should just get a Mazda rebuild. URG!
HELP!
Ilesha

Shamus

Well guys, go ahead and yell at me cause I say the se is not as good as a gsl. I've had 2 se and about 8-9 gs and gsl and would take any non-se over an se. Yea Yea Yea, I know that the se is "top of the line" but I can't stand trying to keep a 20 year old fuel injected car running properly. Most se's don't run right cause their injection is screwed up. I would much rather have a gs or gsl with a good Weber and a header. they can run as good or better than an se and are alot simpler to work on. Plus there is something neat about making a 1.1 leter car run as good as rx-7s can. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against someone who can keep one right, I just think it is too much for so little gain. I love all first generation sevens

Brianhsval

I have yet to lline up with a GSL or any other 7 that is 12A powered and get beat. Of course I am opening myself up here. At any rate, around here it just has not happened. The last one had all these mods and I was still bone stock, so how is it that they just don't run right?

nekky

Shamus, you're pretty much bang on. You could also carburate an SE, and just as easily as a 12A to boot. I will second your opinion that most SEs do NOT run right, including my own. I haven't gotten around to taking everything apart and cleaning, etc. but I doubt it will help all that much anyway. When it does run properly, wow.

But that's like 1/10 of the time.

Zac

peejay

The '70-72 are the "popular" years. They were the purest models.

Now if you really want something, you find something with a date code of '69. There were 500 produced, all left hand drive models, for US consumption, since the 240Z was designed with the US in mind. RHD model production started in 1970. I think of 500 cars, about 120 have been accounted for. Additionally, they also know which cars were on the first BOATLOAD to the US, and of those 20 cars, eight have been accounted for.

You don't see RX-7 people caring like that...

RexxRacer

Mine, well i inherited my GSL-SE (Black/Red) from my step mother. she bougt it new! being an engineer, she was VERY **** retentive about the car. Knowing my passion for the REX she gave me the car three years ago. This car is AB-SO-LUTE-LY perfect. cept for the fact that she has 200K on her. Last week she brought me a folder that contained the maroney sticker, the dealer papers, the ORDER sheet to have it built. every oil change, and I mean EVeRY oil change, hell it even had a wash & wax log she kept up! every possible document immaginable is in here!. along with the ORIGINAL shop manual!. if any of these doc's would contain valuable info for the forum, let me know ill scan it in.
I would say, to find one that is in the condition of mine or some of the others I have seen here is in fact rare. All books and records, no rust, no dents, no paint.
i think along with the z cars the rex will become collectable. i wouldnt look for too many other jap cars to land in that category,...over here at least