say you a have an FB that is modded (SP 13B Holley light flywheel and Full exhaust) how does that compare to todays cars? like a WRX or 350Z or Celica or anything like that that is stock?

 

Well, the car you described there would be in the same range as a Celica. It wouldn't touch a WRX though, and a 350Z would be a little faster. That engine should make around 180-200hp, and going by weight, you should be able to figure out what you can run against.

 

a stock wrx isnt much. . . especially with a common driver from role or dig.

 

Pretty much just any car with a power to weight of 10 to 1 is going to be within some reach.

 

uhm..if the new car is stock or just intake, exhaust say the wrx..350z you can edge them out or stick with them till about 120 when you start dieing out ..lOl .btw you will have to wind it up to 8k rpm for them..for must cars i dont rev so high but for those yeah LOL ...thats why i am goin to turbo my 1st gen but first i want to make sure it stays in a straight line which it barely does now ..

 

Your FB should be good for low 14s/high 13s depending on track/tires/driver/etc. Stock WRXs run 14.0 with a good driver. If you get a guy in that car who can't launch, he'll be looking at 15s all day long.

From a roll, you should be able to take a stock WRX pretty easy. If the guy next to you at the stop light knows how to use that AWD, though, you'll be playing catch up, but you have a chance to be pretty much even.

 

The biggest advantage that you would have in this fight would be weight. The cars listed will have you beat hands down for power, but they also have to lug aroung a lot more steel than you do. Get them into the curves and you might be able to hold your own. Throw a turbo on there, and then it would be a different story. I've driven my buddy's STI, and you won't want to play with one of those if the driver knows what he's doing. But again, with a turbo you might hang...

 

+1 dont know why people think the WRX is such a good car, its nothing special apart from the AWD. and also ive found that the people who drive them tend not to be the greatest drivers either. ive beaten plenty of WRXs in my mildly modded SA. the main advantage of the 1gen is gonna be weight, 200 bhp and under a tonne? how can you lose

 

The situation and a fair amount of personal opinion will determine the better car.

That said,a simple flat road drag race is a terrible way to compare cars to see which one is "best".

Sure,a WRX doenst have TONS of power,but its AWD will destroy you off the line, and its grip and control will give it a big advantage in the turns.It also has lots of usable torque,being turbocharged...something an N/A rotary is sorely lacking.

The 350Z is heavier by far,but also has great power and torque,possesing a much bigger engine.Its suspension and brakes and just about everything related to the chassis is lightyears ahead of an FB.Whether this makes it "better",is subjective.....

The Celica is closer,being small light and similarly powered(N/A with high revs)
Its FWD however,so the way it behaves in just about any situation is going to be different.....is this better or worse?....depends on who's asking and who's driving.


One things for sure,a modded FB with a carb is going to lose in civility and driveability against a modern, EFI/computor controlled car, of just about any make.

 

doesnt AWD cause significant understeer when cornering?

 

How do you guys think I'd fare with a streetported 12A Turbo, custom 3 inch exhaust, TII tranny, GSL-SE rearend, FC Direct Fire, Small front mount intercooler? I have an idea but I just want to see what you guys think

 

Probably depends on how you approach the turn.If you go in hot and oversteer it,the fronts will pull you through.If you plow into the turn,the car's additional weight will probably make it worse.....

I think it was said best, a few posts ago....the AWD wonder cars of today are very dangerous in skilled hands,but mostly are ho-hum when driven by tards.....

 

The WRX in stock form is a good daily driver, modded up it can be potent.

The gen 1 can be modded up to 600bhp, and still be legal and streetable. Just work out how much cash you can afford, this gives how much power you can afford, work out the performance[sub 11 seconds is possible] and you can compare it with your choice of stock modern cars.

For example a stock WRX does the 1/4 mile in 14.2 seconds, equal to a stock RX-7 Gen 3. If that is your target, then around 190bhp in a Gen 1 is what you need. A SP 13B well tuned and set up should give that power.

A mildly modded SA will not beat a stock WRX if driver skills are about equal. comparing performance at traffic lights is irrelevant. Most WRXs are not bought as sports cars or driven that way. If one is, it quickly gets seriously modded and you need bundles of cash to beat it. Its not a Civic ricer. However, to hot up a Gen1 to beat a modded WRX will cost far less than the cost of the WRX.

 

I suggest mid 12s, it would keep you up with a reasonably modded WRX or the average Ferrari.

 

I don't know exactly how much power that would make, but unless your running regular street tires, you'll blow the rear end apart. You won't have much traction through 1st, but keeping your tires reletively conservative will save the rear end, at least for a while. The torque of a turbo engine will kill it almost instantly if you use sticky summer tires or drag radials. Just ask directfreak. He put drag radials on his GSL-SE about 330hp at the wheels and just blew the rear end up on the first launch, or so I heard. This was with a stock GSL-SE rear end and TII tranny.

 

comparing a 20+ year old car to new cars is apples and oranges, as much as i love the RX7's, there is just no comparison in any aspect.

you may have a chance against a celica or civic, but the 350z and WRX are simply just better developed cars.

then again, theres only one way to find out...

 

Top Gear had a comparison video.

Top Gear - All Wheel Drive vs Front Wheel Drive vs Rear Wheel Drive
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...94845558014372

 

I'm sorry but a well sorted 1st gen with a good strong motor in the hands of someone who can drive should eat any stock WRX or 350Z and even a mildly modded one, grip in the dry is just a matter of sorting the spring rates, dampers(shocks), tires and bushings. Power to weight is the rest of the equation, if you do the basic lightening procedure the FB can easy weight under 2300 lbs and with a solid 200 hp you should have a package that is very difficult to beat. Radically lightening the car can come much closer to 2200 or even lighter.

A WRX is closer to 3000 lb and 227 hp, how can that be very fast. I have owned one and yes the grip is prodigious but on a dry tarmac surface a decent RWD has just as much grip, get onto dirt or wet and its all over.

That said the best thing you can do is practise, improve yourself and you'll gain a lot of time.

 

at the same time then, your comparing stock to modified. a modified WRX is kinda out of the range. Hell my TII doesnt keep up with modded WRXs what so ever.

 

Granted, but he didn't ask about a modded WRX, any car can be made faster with enough $

 

and the fact the TII is a perpetuial pain in a my ***...

 

Well I don't think I'll make it to 330hp but I will be running 15psi at max. I was gonna put on some nice sport tires, nothing too radical. My original goal was to beat my buddy's NA GXL with ease but now my goal is to beat my other buddy's Cobalt with whatever he's going to do to it with ease

 

now, don't quote me on this, but i could have sworn Alex sold his rear end (and it was still functional) when he put the Ford rear on Kramer. i just seem to recall him advertising it on the forum.

anyway ... the stock LSD rears are stronger than that. yes, when the torque levels get to insane levels, it will exit stage left, but just putting a turbo motor in the car and even modifying it to relatively mild power levels is not to blow it up unless you abuse it. and if we're going to open up the abuse can-of-worms, then you can blow it up with a stockported 12A, full exhaust and the right clutch!

 

I drive a legacy GT (turbo) for DD right now. I really don't think even with my ~3200lbs curb wieght a non turbo 12a that is streetable (of course streetable is a matter of opinion) could take it. If anyone thinks different and is in the area PM me and we'll set up a time to go to the track, or contact a local gt owner. I'd say that most any N/A rotary that you could daily drive could not do much to even the average true sports sedan of today.

Having said all of that, that is why I put a chevy lump in my 7. But even though the car is faster (or at least feels so) than anything I've driven (sadly a stock C5 is that fastest car I've driven) and I can lay down <5.5 0-60 times without much effort on a dusty road on Kumho's it does take away from the fun of ringing out every little bit of the engine. So I've sold my Chevy set up, not the FB, and I'm going with another engine. What will it be, I'm not even 100% on what, but it wont be an american V8.

It's not always about what you can beat, but more so how you feel when you drive the car. If you feel like a hero with ~150hp, stick with with it. I love FB's (a morbid love) but I can't justify the money to build a 12a or 13b N/A, it's just not me. Drive what you want because you love to drive it, not because it will beat something. I love my Suby, the second one I've had so far... I didn't buy it because of what it could beat, I just like the Legacy for a good all around ride. I like SA/FB's because they're simple and fun and inexpensive as far as a car hobby goes.

 

as for the original question ... i wouldn't compare an SA or FB to either of the cars mentioned. hell, i wouldn't compare the WRX to the 350Z.

let's face it ... "true" sports cars have only gotten more powerful since 1985 (the last Gen I) and it's not just peak numbers here, i'm talking about "practical, daily-driver-with-A/C-on-full-blast- while cruising on the Taconic Parkway or working Seattle traffic" - usable power. only a handful of our beloved cars have been built by their respective owners to match or exceed that.

making a blanket comparison is pointless because we all have different points of view and seek different attributes in our cars. then, of course, some of us simply lack the pockets to do it right. beating a 350Z from a stoplight just doesn't seem like a great accomplishment to me especially when the cop pulls me over and lets the Z go simply because i was only one he heard (and yes, i got pulled over before just because the cop said "it sounded like i was going fast." - that was a direct quote, and i was NOT racing or even speeding, i wasn't even driving my Rx-7). chasing a WRX through the twisties sort of loses it's appeal to me when i realize that it's 90º the other guys has his A/C blasting.

maybe i'm just too old now, but i choose to savor the feeling i get from just driving my Rx-7. i enjoy it so much more than any of my other cars. i run it hard when i can, but i don't really care much about which cars are faster.

does anyone else see what i'm saying?