how do you identify 1st and 2nd generation
12-20-02, 02:17 PM
#27
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Not so. The 1st gen RX7 has a small, lightweight frameless hatch bracketed by two small windows and integrated C pillars on the body.
The 2nd gen RX-7 has a compound curve one piece glass hatch with steel subframe. This enlarges the hole in the body, deleting the C pillars, which then requires additional bracing for structural rigidity around the opening and in the roll hoop where the hinges now bear a far greater weight.
However, the overall FC car in base form is only about 200 lbs more than a fully loaded FB GSL-SE.
EDIT: Both generations were Japanese derived syling 'homage'/copies of European cars. In the book RX-7: The New Mazda RX-7 and Mazda Rotary Engine Sports Cars by Jack Yamaguchi, Mazda is very forthcoming about their 'inspirations'. Project X605, which became the 1st gen, was Lotus-Elan derived whereas the P747 (2nd gen) was Porsche 944 inspired.
The 2nd gen RX-7 has a compound curve one piece glass hatch with steel subframe. This enlarges the hole in the body, deleting the C pillars, which then requires additional bracing for structural rigidity around the opening and in the roll hoop where the hinges now bear a far greater weight.
However, the overall FC car in base form is only about 200 lbs more than a fully loaded FB GSL-SE.
EDIT: Both generations were Japanese derived syling 'homage'/copies of European cars. In the book RX-7: The New Mazda RX-7 and Mazda Rotary Engine Sports Cars by Jack Yamaguchi, Mazda is very forthcoming about their 'inspirations'. Project X605, which became the 1st gen, was Lotus-Elan derived whereas the P747 (2nd gen) was Porsche 944 inspired.
Last edited by Manntis; 12-20-02 at 02:22 PM.
12-20-02, 11:57 PM
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My question as to who used the started using the term 'Second Generation' was serious
Obviously no one at the time used the term First Gen for the SA or FB. If its replacement had been called the RX-8 or RX-9 as suggested it would never have been used. The RX-7 name was continued for marketing reasons against the advice of the engineers.
Now back to my question, none of the Mazda adverts at the time used the term Second gen. The first clue is Road and Track in a test review called it a new generation from Mazda. But I am having trouble finding the use of Second Gen for at least five years until the FD came on the scene. Did anyone call the SA a First Gen for the first 13 tears of its life?
Obviously no one at the time used the term First Gen for the SA or FB. If its replacement had been called the RX-8 or RX-9 as suggested it would never have been used. The RX-7 name was continued for marketing reasons against the advice of the engineers.
Now back to my question, none of the Mazda adverts at the time used the term Second gen. The first clue is Road and Track in a test review called it a new generation from Mazda. But I am having trouble finding the use of Second Gen for at least five years until the FD came on the scene. Did anyone call the SA a First Gen for the first 13 tears of its life?
12-21-02, 12:03 AM
#32
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Yes. As stated eaerlier, virtually all cars are commonly referred to as 'generations' defining major restyling.
Daytona owners do the same thing, as do Honda owners, etc. etc.
About the name, it was actually Chief Project Engineer Akio Uchiyama's idea to carry on the RX-7 name, as to his team the designation referred to the mid-level 2 seat sports coupe configuration, and the fact that (while new in terms of suspension, body style, etc) the car was an evolutionary extansion of its predicessor.
Daytona owners do the same thing, as do Honda owners, etc. etc.
About the name, it was actually Chief Project Engineer Akio Uchiyama's idea to carry on the RX-7 name, as to his team the designation referred to the mid-level 2 seat sports coupe configuration, and the fact that (while new in terms of suspension, body style, etc) the car was an evolutionary extansion of its predicessor.
Last edited by Manntis; 12-21-02 at 12:06 AM.
12-21-02, 08:11 AM
#33
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Originally posted by Maguire
Too bad they are both butt ugly. But i guess that was the boxy style at the time.
No one asks me if my fb is a 944. they always ask if its a 280. heheeh good thing i like datsuns too.
Too bad they are both butt ugly. But i guess that was the boxy style at the time.
No one asks me if my fb is a 944. they always ask if its a 280. heheeh good thing i like datsuns too.
12-21-02, 09:49 AM
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Took too long to get back to this thread to add this to my previous reply...here's a link to the topic and some definitive picture evidence to all those who still don't believe the 2ndgen RX-7 isn't a wannabe 944...should link to where a battery of pics were posted to kill the debate... 
The Ultimate Comparo to quell all dissenters...
The Ultimate Comparo to quell all dissenters...
12-21-02, 01:40 PM
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What's interesting is Mazda doesn't go by either '1st gen' OR 'SA, FB' etc.
The Mazda system is as follows:
1978 = X605 - North American versions, requiring more stringent rear-impact reinforcement, are 2 seat only; other versions without additional rear-impact bracing could be had with 2 'occasional seats' in back.
1979 = P642 - upgraded interior materials ('P' stands for 'Production')
1980 = P815 - the new bumpers lowered drag coefficient to 0.34, equivalent to a 5HP gain, and reduced front end lift from 0.18 to 0.12
1982 = P130 - lean-burn 12A engine (still different than the Japanese and European model 12As), revised interior. Black Dynamite stereo added... the first Mazda shipped to North America with this system had it stolen from the car within 3 hours of landing at Mazda Motors of America.
1983 = P132 - the GSL-SE with 13B, built for the North American market only. SEs with headlight washers and other Canadian spec additions are the rarest. Japan got the 12A turbo because there were factory repair services everywhere in Japan but worries about reliability meant North America got the more conservative approach to boosting displacement.
The Mazda system is as follows:
1978 = X605 - North American versions, requiring more stringent rear-impact reinforcement, are 2 seat only; other versions without additional rear-impact bracing could be had with 2 'occasional seats' in back.
1979 = P642 - upgraded interior materials ('P' stands for 'Production')
1980 = P815 - the new bumpers lowered drag coefficient to 0.34, equivalent to a 5HP gain, and reduced front end lift from 0.18 to 0.12
1982 = P130 - lean-burn 12A engine (still different than the Japanese and European model 12As), revised interior. Black Dynamite stereo added... the first Mazda shipped to North America with this system had it stolen from the car within 3 hours of landing at Mazda Motors of America.
1983 = P132 - the GSL-SE with 13B, built for the North American market only. SEs with headlight washers and other Canadian spec additions are the rarest. Japan got the 12A turbo because there were factory repair services everywhere in Japan but worries about reliability meant North America got the more conservative approach to boosting displacement.
12-22-02, 08:31 PM
#39
you guys sure do a lot of cutting for a bunch of rx7 enthusiasts. the 3rd gen is what brought the majority of people here. it is THE marker for the rx7. but it would not be w/o the previous gens. i have owned 2. a 79 and now my 91. i like different things about each. someday, alcohol dying kidneys willing, i will own a 3rd gen and have that as a comparison. all i say is grow up. all the gens have something going for them. all have they're comparisons and copies, yada yada. respect, learn the word. also props to manntis for his always concisive research. thats all i've got for now. i'm sure the flames will rise as all the hate mongrels sink they're fangs into they're own superiority.
12-23-02, 09:34 AM
#40
My wife bought me 2 RX-7s
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Personally, the RX-7 will always be the 1st gen for me. Sure I'm biased, as I've only owned/driven a 1st gen, but to me, the concept of an affordable sports/gt car with minimal amenities will always define the RX-7. Mazda strayed from that philosophy as the years went on until suddenly the RX-7 was in competition with the Corvette, which was unthinkable in '78 when the 1st model rolled out of the factory.
Oh, and just to pay lip service to the original topic of this thread:
1st Gen: good looking.
2nd Gen: fugly.
'nuff said.
Matt
Oh, and just to pay lip service to the original topic of this thread:
1st Gen: good looking.
2nd Gen: fugly.
'nuff said.
Matt
12-24-02, 04:52 PM
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The 1stgens defined what an RX-7 is and the 3rdgen pushed it to the limit along with a styling nod to the old Corvettes with the double-bubble rooftop. The years between were a wasteland....I liken them to Ford's Mustang...the '64 - '72 years were the great, golden years....the mid-80's return to 200+ HP 5.0s was the resurgence of the mark which has only gotten better as time progresses, but the years in between those two eras saw the "Cobra II" and other such crap that disgraced and nearly killed the Mustang name....the 2ndgens weren't that bad, but it's very comparable, the overweight, fat beasts that they were...
