Ok, I've been troubleshooting this problem last couple days. I removed both headlight motors from my 1980 to re fubrish them and detail em out. While out, I changed out the actual motors (retcactors) with another set which have identical electrical connections. Thses have four seperate wires/connectors under a rubber boot to shield the connections. (I know later cars went to a single gang plug) I only changed cause the original reactors had the shielding boot removed from the harness and I wanted to protect the connections again.

After getting it all back together, the manual headlight switch on the center dash seems to be reversed. When the switch is off the headlights come up and vise/versa. If the lights are up using the dash switch and I turn on the lights with the combination switch, they do turn on but immediatly lower and shine while closed. Using the combo with the headlighs already closed (the dash switch in the up position) everything turs on but the headlights don't budge and remain down. It seems to be getting crossed signals somewhere. Everything else, light wise and mechanical functions correctly. I can't see where its wrong. The reactor connections are all shaped different so that you can't plug them together wrong.

I did have the alternator and coils out too, but these shouldn't have any relation.
I know DD and some others are pretty sharp when it comes to electrical issues. Any suggestiions? It's got to be something simple.

 

In order for the motor to go both ways it would need two grounds in order to reverse polarity .. One ground for ccw the other ground for cw .. It sounds to me that they are backwards .. Making the lights shine when turned on but the motor must be getting the wrong ground making it work backwards .. I would guess that the plugs aren't as perfect as appears .. Is there a right hand and a left hand motor or are they both the same ? I could very well be all wrong but if I am someone will jump on me and at least you will get some attention

 

Two reactors, one each side. for each headlight. The grounds attach the the brackets and bolts that hold each motor to the inner fender and are in place. (although a wire could be broke internally) Four plugs each side, two white connectors (one ea. male & female) two brown connectors (one ea. male and female) Plus the two colors are different shapes and stlye of interlocking. You have to break the plastic connector body to hook them up wrong.

 

The motors in the headlight retractors on SAs do not reverse direction like window motors... they always turn in the same direction, and use embedded switches to detect when the light transmissions have the bellcranks in the up or down position.

Download the wiring diagram & check it out; it will help you understand what's going on in the system.

The issue is in the on-motor switch wiring, most likely.

 

I've been looking at the 79 wiring diargam book. Schematic E is the headlight & Illumination system. I believe it's connected correct. It's only four wires each side and a couple grounds (that I messd with). Should be plug and play. Not sure what may fail to give me this condition. I have no head light Illumination in the up position, and the manual dash switch operates in reverse now. I tried two other manual dash switches and they all do the same thing. My problem is I don't know enough about how electrical components tick to diagnose the fault. I might have to switch back the retractors and see what happens.

 

Then everything is working exactly backwards ..

 

So maybe if I try the lights while in reverse, they'll work right? Seeing down the road via the backup markers could be a challange. Especially explaining it to officer friendly. Been there, done that, got the striped outfit.

 

No, if they were working exactly backwards, the garage would get DARKER when they were on.

I think I have an idea of what's going on... seeing as it followed installing the replacement units, if the connections are correct the fault must be with them. Since BOTH are reacting the same, the fault is symmetric.

Did you take the little crank arms off of the motors, the ones that move the links? It sounds from your description like the units are operating fine electrically, but are mechanically assembled with the arms rotated 180 degrees from where they should be. This would happen if the "new" motors were in the "on" position when removed, but you assembled them with the arms in the "off" position, 180 degrees out of phase.

Even if not, it's possible your "new" motors were already mechanically in the "on" position, but the crank arms are installed 180 degrees out of rotation.

Unbolting the crank arms from the motor transmission shaft, and remounting them 180 degrees out, would probably solve your problem. I don't think they are keyed, but can't remember exactly. Too late tonight to go look at mine.

 

You know that makes sence in a "backwards sort of way". I obtained the other set of motors from a part out, so I have no way of knowing what position they were in when removed. The arms were removed and replaced. They are not keyed but the motor shaft is tapered with a kind of a straight knurl or weak spline which the crank arm is pressed on and held by the nut. I'll play with this idea tonight.

 

You were exactly right DD. Thanks! I was so wraped around it being an electrical dead end that I wasn't even tracking the mechanical aspect. Works like a champ now. Hell, I even played with it re-connecting one first and watching them alternate one "up and one "down" like alerions on a plane. That could be a hell of a trick to play on a buddies car sometime. I guess something really was backwards. I just had to hold the problem up to a mirror to see the solution.

 

...and THAT is what makes this such a great forum.

Well done DD.

Stu Aull
80GS
Alaska

 

Glad to be of service!

 

DD is my Hero!!!!!