speckamp

Ok, so it's been a LONG time since I've posted anything here so I figured I'd come back with a "here's what I wanna do, try and estimate what I'll get out of it" game.

Right now it's a stock(ish) 1985 GSL-SE 13B w/ working 6ports with a 3" K&N cone air filter, stock exhaust manifold -> Bonez High Flow Cat + presilencer -> stock midpipe -> 2 1/4" straight pipe out the back.

The only other modification that I can think of is the MSD 6A direct firing the leading plugs.

This spring I plan on finishing up on the Megasquirt and getting that buttoned up and tuned. Following that I hope to top the intake system with an injection perfection IDA 50MM throttle body and 6port manifold.

This will probably cap off the modifications to the car, with the possible exception of headers. I'm figuring that I'm putting about 130-140HP down right now (based on observations and some street contests) and am just wondering if anyone can estimate what I can expect when I'm done.

Oh, and to all the old schoolers who I havn't talked to in ages..."hi" Good to see that Directfreak finally got the turbo fb running

--matt

RRTEC

iTrader: (13)

Uh..... glad you are back.

I think about 156-160hp is gonna be where you will be at. Without a port job you are gonna cap out somewhere around there I would assume.

Directfreak

iTrader: (2)

Agreed, when you switch to the megasquirt, change the intake to a 2nd gen one. More power potential.

Gregs

guess the hp on this setup

13B 6port, Stock port motor
5th and 6th ports wired open
RB 2"collected header (w/ o2 sensor bung welded in so o2 sensor is still functional), 2.5 back to 3" over axle
Modded and Ported throttle body
AFM cone filter adaper to a giant cone filter
power steering removed
Air conditioning removed
ACV, vacuum switches and solenoids removed, airpump removed

umm not that it matters HP wise but near 300lbs of weight reduction

i cant think of anything else ATM

speckamp

do you think a FC intake is going to be "better" than the Injection Perfection route? As much as I love the look over the Weber IDA style TB and the clean intake manifold from IP, if you think it'll be better to go w/ the FC intake I'll happily save the cash :)

speckamp

GSL-SE 13B or FC 13B?

if GSL-SE I'd say 150ish.
if FC I'd say 160ish. The later NA's had better porting and ECU's, as well as larger AFMs.

Gregs

its a gsl-se, i know its pushed me in the mid 14's
just not sure on the hp
im planning on getting it dynoed before i get my turbo done

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

if you're not going to port the motor anytime soon, then going with the 50 mm IDA throttle body is overkill (in my opinion). get it if you plan to later build a motor for it, but you're going to be running the stock ports then i think a Gen II intake (like Directfreak said) using your SE injectors as secondaries should be fine.

just a curious question: is that Megasquirt compatible with the Gen II crank angle sensor?

SS124A

why just wire the aux ports open? Why not just straight up remove the sleeves and/or throw in a set of Rob's pinapple sleaves?
you really wouldn't believe the difference this makes.

porting the TB while remaining N/A really isn;t worth it,,.. atleast to the degree I port them to.. but removing the bypass, and secondary thottle plates are a must.

I see alot of folks port their TB and do more harm than good.

on removing the AC, ACV etc..

Convert to an S4 MAF.... and screw the cone filter idea, unless you build a box for it, where it is not only sheilded from engine bay heat, but is directly cold-air ducted from below the car

for the fun of it once, I riged the **** out of an engine bay to put the MAF near the firewall, and plumbed to the TB, then i got the cold air from inside the cowl (cool air under high pressure) and ducted that to the intake of the AFM... I had really good results, but not enough time to play with developing... and making it look better..

I would keep the power steering.. Even though it is weight, unless you switch to a non-power box, OR use FC pump and aluminium bracket.

I have autoXed a friends non-power steering GSL-SE.. I had to jerk it around, and I am by no means a weak guy. my point is, I would have been smoother with it, but then again, it is a preference thing.

Your exhaust sounds good, but be sure in that initial 2.5" section to include an RB pre-silencer.


to the original question,
48mm weber IDA "style" throttle bodies or carby or whatever, is good to around 275 hp or so..

So there is no *NEED* to go any larger.

although, on the other hand you can tune it by going to a smaller choke, like a 38mm choke in a 51mm hole... or whatever


both set-ups are pretty close... but i agree with directfreak.
150-160 hp.

Gregs

well ive got a turbo in process, so thats the reason i ported the throttle body, and the reason i havent removed the sleeves straight up is because i havent had time to remove the intake manifold, but before the turbo goes on the intake is getting ripped apart, cleaned, pained and all new gaskets, as well as new vaccum lines for the entire engine

ill keep everyone posted on my progress

speckamp

well it won't be as sexy as the weber-style, but i'll prolly save a bunch of money that route.

it can take trigger from just about anything if you wire it right. There are a couple of FC guys running it "piggyback" on the stock ECU taking CAS input to trigger. The Dual Table code makes it quite nice to put big fat secondarys (GSL-SE or bigger sized) and tune them to take over whenever so you can get a nice smooth idle out of the tiny primarys (something very hard to do on the 720cc/min GSL-SE injectors, what with idle pulsewidths in the 1-2ms range). megasquirt.info and msefi.com (IIRC) are both good places to look.

Also with the MSII addon chip/card it looks like Rotary Ignition is easily possible.

speckamp

I pulled off a ~14.8sec 1/4 at like 94MPH (years ago, with a Gtech) in my relativly stock at the time GSL-SE, still even had the stock 80kmile muffler on there.

I think it's faster now, since I can embarass Audi A4 2.8 Quattros and the like on the highway in any gear from 50 - 100 (not a good idea to try on public roads, but we were all young and stupid once) and they're rated at ~190ish HP and ~210lb/ft. it was a manual as well.

So I'd say the 140ish hp estimate is probably right (right now), the GSL-SE's are geared quite well for the powerband.

In my pipe dreaming I'd like to see close to 200HP in NA form. I'd love to do it without porting or anything nutty like that, because if I go that far I'm going to want my dream engine, which is a tad farfetched...11,000RPM redline with like 200+hp to the wheels with no bridge/p-porting..just light and balanced parts and a big *** street-ish port job.

I just don't like the turbo...I like the response of the car to be linked solely and completely to the actions of my right foot

--matt

speckamp

Ok, so I've been peeking around and I can't find much information on the trials involved in fitting an 89 - 91 VDI intake manifold to the GSL-SE. I'd guessed that it was similar to the 86-88's but after reading http://www.sa22c.org/cat_15/37497/ I'm not so sure. Has anyone tried it? (I did indeed search the forums and found nothing related.) I'm not worried about the electrical wizardry, the trusty megasquirt will control the VDI / 6port switchover with very little fuss, I just want to know how much of a pain I should expect in mating the manifold.

cheers.

matt

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

mating the manifolds?
no problem ... i'm using an '89 lower intake manifold on my SE engine right now.

speckamp

Awesome, did you have to fill the EGR port on the manifold or did everything miracliously line up?

Also, do your aux ports work, or did you just jam them open?